AFC East QB Play | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

AFC East QB Play

Brumdog45 said:
For anyone who thinks Josh Allen had such a great year.....I dare you to tell me you would trade our fifth pick for him. If he truly is a franchise QB, you’d not only do that but you’d throw in the other two first round picks as well.
He’s a pedestrian quarterback and when you start throwing around things like ‘clutch throws’ and ‘team leader’ that’s code for ‘his numbers suck but I like him’.
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Dude - no one is claiming Josh Allen to be a franchise QB, or Fitzpatrick. Quit moving the goal-posts mid conversation just for the sake of arguing....but you're 100% more likely to find a GM willing to trade picks for Josh Allen than Fitzpatrick.

This thread was about how Fitzpatrick outplayed the AFC East QBs, and I don't think he outplayed Josh Allen. Pretty simple. Those pedestrian QBs quotes were being thrown around for Fitz too, btw.
 
Mach2 said:
I'm not comparing anything. The thread is, specifically, about the QB position.

You sad the only thing that matters is Ws and Ls. That isn't even close to true.

If we were talking about the overall team, then yes, wins are what you judge by.
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Brady still best qb in afc east. If u want talk about. At 42 he is declining but still know how win.
 
39wildman said:
Brady still best qb in afc east. If u want talk about. At 42 he is declining but still know how win.
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No arguement there, but he can't take a team on his back, and carry them to victory, the way he has in his prime.

You keep mentioning his age. Are you a bit insecure about getting older?........lol

It's OK, it happens to all of us.....lol
 
Mach2 said:
No arguement there, but he can't take a team on his back, and carry them to victory, the way he has in his prime.

You keep mentioning his age. Are you a bit insecure about getting older?........lol

It's OK, it happens to all of us.....lol
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Just say we want brady retire..after winning division like 19 out 20.. what does brady really got proved miami fan..
 
Mach2 said:
No arguement there, but he can't take a team on his back, and carry them to victory, the way he has in his prime.

You keep mentioning his age. Are you a bit insecure about getting older?........lol

It's OK, it happens to all of us.....lol
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This is my problem with comparing any player, particularly someone's GOAT. How to grade. Should fans consider the surrounding cast and how much, in this case, the QB was able to accomplish? Should fans looks at the complete QB (e.g., the QBs ability to make plays in a scramble)? Does the D count in the success? I think that's what get people bogged down in evaluations. IMO, Brady is the GOAT in the mental aspect. Physical talent? Not so much. What everyone knows is Brady has deteriorated significantly. The debate is how much.
 
fansinceGWilson said:
This is my problem with comparing any player, particularly someone's GOAT. How to grade. Should fans consider the surrounding cast and how much, in this case, the QB was able to accomplish? Should fans looks at the complete QB (e.g., the QBs ability to make plays in a scramble)? Does the D count in the success? I think that's what get people bogged down in evaluations. IMO, Brady is the GOAT in the mental aspect. Physical talent? Not so much. What everyone knows is Brady has deteriorated significantly. The debate is how much.
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I agree but I would change "how much" to "how much and why". I don't think he has degraded as much as it seems. The entire team is fading around him.

Consider how many of the coaches that were there 3 years ago are gone.
We got 2, Detroit got one, another left, then went back, and now looks like he will be leaving again and I don't follow the Pats that closely. I suspect there are even more then the four I referenced who have left or are leaving.

Consider who he is throwing to now and who he had 2 or 3 years ago.

Do you see the pattern of a team that is losing many significant coaches and players?

How much of the Patriots degradation (If you can call a 12-4 season degradation) is due to loss of coaches and supporting staff as opposed to Tom Brady getting older.

I will point out that as of today they are still in the playoffs!

A good thread would be "Who are the Patriots going to get to replace Belichick"?

A better thread will be "When will the Patriots replace Belichick".

I'll go out on a limb here and say within 3 years, Adam Gase will be the coach of the New England Patriots. How's that for a prediction; no beating around the bush, no maybe's or what if's; just the beauty of a simple declarative sentence.

Remember this post when the unthinkable becomes reality and remember that I Told You So!

Did I mention I had a good day at the range this afternoon. I was really on target!
 
Ray R said:
I agree but I would change "how much" to "how much and why". I don't think he has degraded as much as it seems. The entire team is fading around him.

Consider how many of the coaches that were there 3 years ago are gone.
We got 2, Detroit got one, another left, then went back, and now looks like he will be leaving again and I don't follow the Pats that closely. I suspect there are even more then the four I referenced who have left or are leaving.

Consider who he is throwing to now and who he had 2 or 3 years ago.

Do you see the pattern of a team that is losing many significant coaches and players?

How much of the Patriots degradation (If you can call a 12-4 season degradation) is due to loss of coaches and supporting staff as opposed to Tom Brady getting older.

I will point out that as of today they are still in the playoffs!

A good thread would be "Who are the Patriots going to get to replace Belichick"?

A better thread will be "When will the Patriots replace Belichick".

I'll go out on a limb here and say within 3 years, Adam Gase will be the coach of the New England Patriots. How's that for a prediction; no beating around the bush, no maybe's or what if's; just the beauty of a simple declarative sentence.

Remember this post when the unthinkable becomes reality and remember that I Told You So!

Did I mention I had a good day at the range this afternoon. I was really on target!
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Agree with all that, but Brady isn't near the QB he was 3 years ago
 
royalshank said:
Not a franchise QB and I wouldn’t trade an 8th round pick in the supplemental draft for him or Darnold or any QB who isn’t elite. Having these QBs on your roster is a distraction and waste of time as in they give you false hope.
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Which was kind of my point, although I wouldn't go that far. The point was that after two years I don't see him being a franchise quarterback. In most cases, if you haven't shown it 40 games in, you ain't it. His clock is almost up.
 
russianbear said:
Dude - no one is claiming Josh Allen to be a franchise QB, or Fitzpatrick. Quit moving the goal-posts mid conversation just for the sake of arguing....but you're 100% more likely to find a GM willing to trade picks for Josh Allen than Fitzpatrick.

This thread was about how Fitzpatrick outplayed the AFC East QBs, and I don't think he outplayed Josh Allen. Pretty simple. Those pedestrian QBs quotes were being thrown around for Fitz too, btw.
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No crap owners are more likely to move picks for Allen than Fitz.....Fitz is 37. That also wasn't the argument. The argument was about who had a better year.

There is nothing outside of team wins that would lead anyone to say that Allen outplayed Fitzpatrick last year. Fitz put up better numbers behind a putrid line and no running game.....and QBR picks up the situational throws where Fitzpatrick dwarfed Allen last year. And Allen certainly did show that quite often when they lost, he bore a big responsibility....Allen's completion percentage was under 50% in games the Bills lost. Take a look at what he did in their losses (I won't hold the last Jets game against him since he barely played):
13 of 28 for 153 against the Patriots....they lost 16-10
16 of 34 for 169 against the Eagles....they lost 31-13
22 of 41 for 266 against the Browns...they lost 19-16
17 of 39 for 146 against the Ravens....they lost 24-17
13 of 26 for 208 against the Patriots....they lost 24-17.

So except for one game, the defense played average to good in their losses but the offense stunk it up......and Allen was inaccurate every time.
 
fansinceGWilson said:
This is my problem with comparing any player, particularly someone's GOAT. How to grade. Should fans consider the surrounding cast and how much, in this case, the QB was able to accomplish? Should fans looks at the complete QB (e.g., the QBs ability to make plays in a scramble)? Does the D count in the success? I think that's what get people bogged down in evaluations. IMO, Brady is the GOAT in the mental aspect. Physical talent? Not so much. What everyone knows is Brady has deteriorated significantly. The debate is how much.
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Which is why IMO QBR is a better way to compare QBs. Unlike quarterback rating, it figures in QB runs and sacks. If there is anything that should be Josh Allen's friend, it's QBR. QBR takes into account down and distance of plays....and it shows that Allen is lacking.

And it's not just QBR putting him there. Football Outsiders is a damn good analytics company that pioneered much of today's advanced stats. They give two different rankings for QBs: DYAR (Defense-Adjusted yards above replacement) and DVOA (Defense-Adjusted Value Over Average).

Their rankings of AFC East QBs:
Brady 16/17
Fitzpatrick 18/19
Allen 27/27
Darnold 32/31
 
Nope Fitz was not the best QB in the AFC east not even a debate
 
dlockz said:
Nope Fitz was not the best QB in the AFC east not even a debate
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Any insight, or premise to back that up, or ...........????

By stats alone, there is room for "debate", but that's not really the whole discussion here.

We aren't discussing career achievements.

Do you think any other QB in the AFCE wins 5 games with this years Phins team? That most certainly is a valid debate.
 
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