Armando: Feeling among team sources,changes of significance coming

[tl77]

By the way, for those who say "everyone has to go" and "you shouldn't fire the GM but leave the coach," I present to you:

Exhibit A: the Carolina Panthers. The Panthers elected to fire their GM and keep Ron Rivera for a third year. They are the #2 seed in the NFC with a first round bye.

I am not a big fan of Philbin, but many of the same things we have to say about Joe Philbin were said about Ron Rivera his first two years. 'Shotgun weddings' can work. Armando Salguero might have been floating the notion that both must be fired together when Philbin was popular to try to help his buddy Jeff, but the truth is that there is no reason not to allow the new GM to make that decision. And there is no reason why the new GM must decide to fire him.

Exhibit A: Cam freakin Newton, that is why they are the 2 seed

 

[joenhre]

I agree that the new GM should be allowed to pick his own head coach. If he decides to keep Philbin then I guess I would be ok with it. However at the very least I hope he does make some changes to the coaching staff. I think it's time for Sherman to retire.

 

[ProStyle]

Panthers also got a new OC, not just a GM.

 

[J. David Wannyheimer]

To be fair, they got a new OC because their previous one got a head coaching gig. Mike Shula mostly kept the same offense and just streamlined it a bit.

Exhibit A: Cam freakin Newton, that is why they are the 2 seed

Cam Newton is playing well but that defense is also playing LIGHTS OUT. And they can run the ball. That's just a strong all around team.

Panthers fans absolutely wanted to run Rivera and Newton out of town on a rail last season, and don't let them tell you otherwise. Cam Newton was being SLAMMED from all angles and even THIS SEASON some locals were calling for him to be benched early on. There might be a lesson there. It's something to think about and it's one reason I have pause when it comes to demanding a total house-cleaning that includes Joe Philbin.

 

[DeathStar]

Exhibit A: Cam freakin Newton, that is why they are the 2 seed

Riverboat Ron.

His gambling and his defense (his specialty) are a big reason they are number 2.

Be nice to see a coach that has a specialty excel at it (Jets and Panthers come to mind)

 

[PhinFan in RI]

I agree that the new GM should be allowed to pick his own head coach. If he decides to keep Philbin then I guess I would be ok with it. However at the very least I hope he does make some changes to the coaching staff. I think it's time for Sherman to retire.

this. this mkes a ton of sense.

 

[DefensiveEnd76]

The problem is 3 fold. First, we have an owner who is fricken clueless about the NFL and what it takes to have a winning franchise. Secondly, we have a GM who brings in very little talent. Third, any talent Ireland does bring in who has potential, doesn't develop because we have a subpar coaching staff that can't develop talent or maximize a players abilities.

 

[PhinFan in RI]

The problem is 3 fold. First, we have an owner who is fricken clueless about the NFL and what it takes to have a winning franchise. Secondly, we have a GM who brings in very little talent. Third, any talent Ireland does bring in who has potential, doesn't develop because we have a subpar coaching staff that can't develop talent or maximize a players abilities.

truth.

 

[tl77]

To be fair, they got a new OC because their previous one got a head coaching gig. Mike Shula mostly kept the same offense and just streamlined it a bit.



Cam Newton is playing well but that defense is also playing LIGHTS OUT. And they can run the ball. That's just a strong all around team.

Panthers fans absolutely wanted to run Rivera and Newton out of town on a rail last season, and don't let them tell you otherwise. Cam Newton was being SLAMMED from all angles and even THIS SEASON some locals were calling for him to be benched early on. There might be a lesson there. It's something to think about and it's one reason I have pause when it comes to demanding a total house-cleaning that includes Joe Philbin.

fair point, let me ask you this - Do you think Philbin had a part in personnel decisions these past 2 years? If so, how do you differentiate which decisions? I don't think we can without actually asking and getting an answer from him. Which obviously will never happen. If talent brought in/let go is a major problem and over the past 2 years when we've seen most of our talent leave, and if we've established he did have a hand in those decisions - he's just as accountable for the level of talent we currently have on this team. That is why I feel we need to do a complete overhaul.

 

[Spesh]

fair point, let me ask you this - Do you think Philbin had a part in personnel decisions these past 2 years? If so, how do you differentiate which decisions? I don't think we can without actually asking and getting an answer from him. Which obviously will never happen. If talent brought in/let go is a major problem and over the past 2 years when we've seen most of our talent leave, and if we've established he did have a hand in those decisions - he's just as accountable for the level of talent we currently have on this team. That is why I feel we need to do a complete overhaul.

Ireland had final say on all roster moves. Nothing happens without Ireland's stamp of approval.

If he gave up that say to follow Philbin's lead, thats still on Ireland. Hes the one that suppose to have the training and experience, not Philbin. Not to mention that any transaction Philbin wants to make will be based on Ireland's scouting and evaluations.

 

[Geordie]

I just don't see a football coach in Philbin, wtf does the man actually do ? He has to go but I doubt Ross is smart enough to see that. Ireland is almost certainly gone IMO. Philbin should follow him out the door really.

 

[tl77]

Ireland had final say on all roster moves. Nothing happens without Ireland's stamp of approval.

If he gave up that say to follow Philbin's lead, thats still on Ireland. Hes the one that suppose to have the training and experience, not Philbin. Not to mention that any transaction Philbin wants to make will be based on Ireland's scouting and evaluations.

thanks for pointing out the obvious. I was saying had a hand in it, not final say. So let's play out a scenario. This offseason Philbin doesn't like Dansby for whatever reason, thinks defense can get faster, doesn't like him in locker room, wtvr and tells this to Ireland. Ireland evaluates and thinks he can find a couple guys out there that might be better. He does the scouting, picks the guys he feels best fits and we sign Ellerbe/Wheeler. Obviously the blame lies on Ireland for being a poor scout, making a wrong decision, but why was this even being thought about? If Philbin doesnt have an issue with vocal leader Dansby, the ball would of never got rolling.

Now before anyone jumps down my throat and say it's all hypothetical, I understand. But I was just giving a scenario in which I believe Philbin had a hand in ****ing up our roster. Ireland gets blame in this scenario of course, but why did we even mess with it in first place. Dansby and Burnett both playing solid. I highly doubt Ireland said **** it, were blowing this up and went on his merry way without input first from Philbin expressing he wanted Dansby gone.

Idk even know if I'm making sense anymore, it's been a long long day fellas :idk:

edit - I think we may be arguing 2 different points now I read again. I'm not saying Philbin picked the players or scouted or wtvr, by saying he had a hand in it, I'm suggesting he initiated these actions of wanting players gone, thus creating holes our pathetic GM could never fill. I admit I don't like the type of players Philbin wants around him - "yes men" I think that's a major problem & we see it on display in today's game - no leadership/fire all because we have mindless drones walking around in that building now

 

[realdolphin]

Coaching and players failed. I see the jets roster and it´s inferior to the Fins roster. Ryan and mortingheg destroyed Sherman and Coyle. period .

 

[iwastherein1972]

1. This team MUST lose ireland by any means necessary. He must be GONE. He is a clueless moron.

2. Tannehill must be firmly entrenched as our starter for the next 5+ years. No changes there. Period.

To me, these are the 2 priorities.

 

[Hayden Fox]

By the way, for those who say "everyone has to go" and "you shouldn't fire the GM but leave the coach," I present to you:

Exhibit A: the Carolina Panthers. The Panthers elected to fire their GM and keep Ron Rivera for a third year. They are the #2 seed in the NFC with a first round bye.

I am not a big fan of Philbin, but many of the same things we have to say about Joe Philbin were said about Ron Rivera his first two years. 'Shotgun weddings' can work. Armando Salguero might have been floating the notion that both must be fired together when Philbin was popular to try to help his buddy Jeff, but the truth is that there is no reason not to allow the new GM to make that decision. And there is no reason why the new GM must decide to fire him.

Exhibit B:

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap20...s-investment-in-young-talent-paying-dividends

Find the part about arranged marriages and tell me you will win a Super Bowl. You yourself were telling me over the weekend that Rex sucked as a coach so do not use the Jets as an example to bolster your claims.