Brady was never as good as they say | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Brady was never as good as they say

tylaw4president said:
I'm kind of confused about the "great situation" in New England. The Pats were 5-11 the year before Brady started playing. They were on a steady decline since the start of the Pete Carroll era. Even the experts said the Patriots were the least likely team to make the playoffs or Super Bowl in the next 5 years:

http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives/features_2000/nflist_030501.asp

They were a team with a poor draft history, and severe salary cap problems when Brady arrived. So let's not call it a "great situation".
Click to expand...

So, Did Brady play or prosper in the Carrol days??? By great situation I mean a burgeoning dynasty, which he was a part of.. BUT, you will admit that Pioli and BB helped form the strutcture right? And that it is a great one for success right? So, Brady came into a great situation.. Only it may not of looked that way at the time.
 
Jnaledu3 said:
Okay, so I guess that means that Marino was a system QB. Put him in Arizona, and he would stink too.
Click to expand...

Wow.. Sometimes I wonder if some of you read at all..

Did I not state that Montana would still be good but not "great" in other systems? Same with Marino.. If he was stuck in absolutely dreadful system and situation, he would not hold several records.. Football is a team game.. If he was stuck in and offensive version of the 2004 Dolphins his entire career I would find it hard pressed for him to rewrite the history books.. Marino had the benefit of playing under one of the NFL's best and most legendary coaches.. He wasnt being coached up by Jerry Glanville.
 
testtubetimmy said:
In every game I watched Tom Brady play for the last few years, one thing has become increasingly evident.

This guy is not Peyton Manning.

In fact, I'd venture to say he's not a great quarterback at all.




He just has one heck of a team backing him up. And thats why the Patriots are so great. And they get to the superbowl. Because they dont have one or two or even three great players. They have a team of good players who work so well together.

Theres a reason Brady didnt go until the sixth round. He isnt amazing. He just fits perfectly into the system that BB has. The guy has all the time to throw in the world behind that line. He's got recievers who for some reason or another, always catch the god forsaken ball, the defense is tough as nails, and together, the team works. You put Brady behind our line or perhaps any other line in the NFL and I'll tell you what happens. Remember the MNF game when we beat them last year? Remember that HORRENDOUS throw he made that was intercepted at the end of the game? You get pressure on him, rattle him, and he turns into Jay Fiedler.

So where am I going with this? My point is, maybe Feeley and Frerotte arent great quarterbacks either. But maybe the teams who have won the superbowl the last few years havent had amazing quarterbacks, but amazing teams, that could work together. And the teams with quarterbacks we'd die for (Indianapolis, Philly, Atlanta, Minnesota, etc) always come up short. If Frerotte or Feeley fit into the system and our team works together like a well oiled machine, we will stomp our way to the top.

So this saturday, I hope that Saban doesnt go for Alex Smith, a guy I've been supporting for a long time. Because a Franchise QB like Dan Marino is always fun to root for. But how many SB's did we win?

Saban is serious, and I think he realizes that its the team, not the QB, that wins games.
Click to expand...

Brady is a winner and makes plays when the game is on the line. What more can you ask for?
 
This thread is in the running for Dumb Thread of the Week. How can you knock Brady. All he does is win games and outshine Manning in all the big games they play.
 
Listen, I don't like Brady. Never have. And it really took until this season for me to finally admit that he's actually a pretty good QB. Maybe it's just because he's a Patriot - No, scratch that - that's exactly why. If he played for the Jets, and they had won 3 SB's, it might even take me longer.

But the fact remains that you don't win 3 SB's with a crap QB. You may be able to win one. (ala Baltimore.) But not three. Do you believe that the Patriots would have won 3 SB's if Damon Huard had won the starting job? Or if they had Doug Johnson? The truth is, he makes good decisions at the right time. He doesn't make the bad play or stupid mistake. And he has adequate enough physical ability to make the play once he makes his decision. My definition of a great QB is soneone who makes the most out of what he has - physically, mentally, and with the cast he has around him. I don't think you can argue against the fact that he does just that. I spent the entire playoff season waiting for the chump to make a boneheaded play like he did against us, and I was disappointed every time. I really don't like Pittsburgh, and found myself rooting for them, just so I wouldn't have to admit that this damn Patriots team was a dynasty. But Brady played like an All-Pro, the All-Pro he is...That's why he's wearing those rings.
 
SkapePhin said:
So, Did Brady play or prosper in the Carrol days??? By great situation I mean a burgeoning dynasty, which he was a part of.. BUT, you will admit that Pioli and BB helped form the strutcture right? And that it is a great one for success right? So, Brady came into a great situation.. Only it may not of looked that way at the time.
Click to expand...

No Brady didn't play or prosper in the Carroll days. My point was that Carroll and Grier ruined 4 drafts and when Belichick got the team it was void of talent. The team was in salary cap hell, went 5-11 the year before, and then started 0-2 the next season, losing to the Bengals and the Jets. Then Brady stepped in and went 14-5 as a starter and they won the SuperBowl. If stepping in for a team that's lost 13 of it's last 18 is a "great situation" in your mind, then I'm going to have to disagree.

If the Pats had won a superbowl, and then Brady stepped in and won two more, then I'd agree with you. That is, if there was already a foundation built by Belichick and Pioli, then I'd agree. But when Brady started the situation was bleak. People were calling for Belichick to be fired already.
 
tylaw4president said:
No Brady didn't play or prosper in the Carroll days. My point was that Carroll and Grier ruined 4 drafts and when Belichick got the team it was void of talent. The team was in salary cap hell, went 5-11 the year before, and then started 0-2 the next season, losing to the Bengals and the Jets. Then Brady stepped in and went 14-5 as a starter and they won the SuperBowl. If stepping in for a team that's lost 13 of it's last 18 is a "great situation" in your mind, then I'm going to have to disagree.

If the Pats had won a superbowl, and then Brady stepped in and won two more, then I'd agree with you. That is, if there was already a foundation built by Belichick and Pioli, then I'd agree. But when Brady started the situation was bleak. People were calling for Belichick to be fired already.
Click to expand...

Again, BB and Pioli were planting the seeds for a great team.. They had the system, Brady made them believe in the system.. Bledsoe was above the system, immobile, and a pick machine.. Thats why they werent winning..

So you believe Brady made Bilichick? BTW, I am not the one who made the inane comment that Brady sucks.. I think he is good, but to deny he is in a good situation now is ludicrous..
 
Doktor Ivel said:
I would put him into the catagory of great QBs.
Click to expand...

Blinded by stupidity! he was a round 6 pick for a reason! he isnt that good!!! very overated! mabe you want to think he is good so it looks like miamis Defense picked off a great QB 4 times in a game!
 
SkapePhin said:
Again, BB and Pioli were planting the seeds for a great team.. They had the system, Brady made them believe in the system.. Bledsoe was above the system, immobile, and a pick machine.. Thats why they werent winning..

So you believe Brady made Bilichick? BTW, I am not the one who made the inane comment that Brady sucks.. I think he is good, but to deny he is in a good situation now is ludicrous..
Click to expand...

I'm not denying he is in a good situation now. But to say the situation he stepped into was great 4 years ago, is insane. The team was 5 and 13 in it's last 18 games. The consensus was they were one of the worst franchise's in the NFL.
 
Funny thing, I said the same things about Joe Montana years ago, and most people thought I was crazy...This is the same situation...the TEAM of the Pats are awesome. Like the TEAM of the Fins in the early 70's and the Steelers of the early 80's, and the 49ers of Montana and Youngs eras...I think that the rest of those teams made the QBs great (Montana, Young, Bradshaw, Griese, etc) not the other way around. However, you can't take anything away from any of them either...in recent history, only Elway, Marino, and Favre were QBs that made their teams better, not the other way around...Again, you can't take anything away from Brady...he is the guy with the glory, no doubt. But is he a QB that can carry a team on his shoulders...no way...
 
dolfan19 said:
Listen, I don't like Brady. Never have. And it really took until this season for me to finally admit that he's actually a pretty good QB. Maybe it's just because he's a Patriot - No, scratch that - that's exactly why. If he played for the Jets, and they had won 3 SB's, it might even take me longer.

But the fact remains that you don't win 3 SB's with a crap QB. You may be able to win one. (ala Baltimore.) But not three. Do you believe that the Patriots would have won 3 SB's if Damon Huard had won the starting job? Or if they had Doug Johnson? The truth is, he makes good decisions at the right time. He doesn't make the bad play or stupid mistake. And he has adequate enough physical ability to make the play once he makes his decision. My definition of a great QB is soneone who makes the most out of what he has - physically, mentally, and with the cast he has around him. I don't think you can argue against the fact that he does just that. I spent the entire playoff season waiting for the chump to make a boneheaded play like he did against us, and I was disappointed every time. I really don't like Pittsburgh, and found myself rooting for them, just so I wouldn't have to admit that this damn Patriots team was a dynasty. But Brady played like an All-Pro, the All-Pro he is...That's why he's wearing those rings.
Click to expand...

Listen. I never said he was a crap QB. In every post I have, ive said that the guy is good. But he's not amazing. He isnt god. And the fact that everyone seems to think so, even you dedicated fin fans, proves my theory that everyone in the world THINKS hes god. And what angered me the most about watching the superbowl, and every patriots game, was that the other teams almost won.

If the eagles knew how to run a two minute drill, Brady wouldnt be great.

If their kicker didnt single handedly win almost every game for them, Brady wouldnt be great. (How many times have we watched a last second field goal send the Pats to a Superbowl/playoff-game/playoff spot? Even the Superbowl was won by three points, granted it wasnt at the end of the game)

If their head coach didnt put together such a well oiled machine, Brady wouldnt be great.

And what happened to Brady the one year they didnt get to the SB? Did he stop being great? Or did his team collectively have a brain fart? I go with the latter.

You guys arent listening to what I'm posting, your just taking little parts and replying to them, thinking that I hate Brady.

I AGREE. BRADY IS A GOOD QB. PROBABLY WILL MAKE THE HOF. AND HE WINS GAMES. BUT IS HE AS AMAZING AS THE ENTIRE WORLD THINKS?

Probably not. Not with his supporting cast.
 
tylaw4president said:
I'm not denying he is in a good situation now. But to say the situation he stepped into was great 4 years ago, is insane. The team was 5 and 13 in it's last 18 games. The consensus was they were one of the worst franchise's in the NFL.
Click to expand...

So, Was Brady the one who turned everything into gold, or was it BB? BB was building the infrastructure for a great team right? Ever stop to think that Bledsoe simply didnt fit into what BB was trying to do but he was handcuffed because of his salary? Bledsoe stays healthy, and BB is fired.. But not because of Brady, but because Bledsoe was above BB's system.. BB couldnt control Bledsoe, like he could control a raw, young Brady.. Bledsoe had that gunslinger mentality that went against everything BB believes in.. BB needed control, and he couldnt do that with Bledsoe, and Bledsoe would just continue to get sacked and throw picks, just like he did in Buffalo. Everything hinged on Bledsoe.. BB had already quietly put the pieces in place for a good team, he just had Frankenstein at the helm.. Once he was gone, it was all roses from there.
 
testtubetimmy said:
Listen. I never said he was a crap QB. In every post I have, ive said that the guy is good. But he's not amazing. He isnt god. And the fact that everyone seems to think so, even you dedicated fin fans, proves my theory that everyone in the world THINKS hes god. And what angered me the most about watching the superbowl, and every patriots game, was that the other teams almost won.

If the eagles knew how to run a two minute drill, Brady wouldnt be great.

If their kicker didnt single handedly win almost every game for them, Brady wouldnt be great. (How many times have we watched a last second field goal send the Pats to a Superbowl/playoff-game/playoff spot? Even the Superbowl was won by three points, granted it wasnt at the end of the game)

If their head coach didnt put together such a well oiled machine, Brady wouldnt be great.

And what happened to Brady the one year they didnt get to the SB? Did he stop being great? Or did his team collectively have a brain fart? I go with the latter.

You guys arent listening to what I'm posting, your just taking little parts and replying to them, thinking that I hate Brady.

I AGREE. BRADY IS A GOOD QB. PROBABLY WILL MAKE THE HOF. AND HE WINS GAMES. BUT IS HE AS AMAZING AS THE ENTIRE WORLD THINKS?

Probably not. Not with his supporting cast.
Click to expand...


He is still superbly accurate.. If you put him in any good, stable atmosphere, he will win games for you.. He isnt exactly Jay Fiedler.. He's a Top 10 if not Top 5 QB no doubt..
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom