Crowder Rocks52
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Boomer do you think he will be there at 32?
Calling Boomer and CK!
- Thread starter scottieUK
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AquaAdrenaline
Scout Team
Exactly. If Connor falls to 32, and seeing how Parcells was willing to fork over $20 mil in guaranteed to Pace (and still failing) there's no way he won't fill it up with a LB from the draft who just so happened to have played for Joe Paterno.
I'm really enjoying this debate...but at this point I have to add my 2 cents.
Why do you keep comparing a true RT Carey playing a LT position out of place who was taken 20th or 21st. To J. Long?
Why even draft Long then we already have RT that was playing LT. And were not paying him mega bucks.
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
Why? Because when the Dolphins drafted Carey it was with the HOPE that he could also play LT...well he can play LT but not as well as RT. Long is a LT...played at LT for two years...and regardless of what fans say...played it well enough to only give up two sacks and two penalites in four years. He's not a finese style tackle...he's road hog...once he locks on...you are going no where but down...he's mean...which again is something we surely need on the Dolphins O-Line.
But that's the point I'd like to make. Are we sure enough that he is going to have the ability to "lock on" to the edge rushers at the NFL level? I mean sure enough to use the #1 pick in the entire draft on him? If he had trouble with Gholston at OSU, how is he going to fare against Ware, Dumervil, Merriman, etc.? Just something to think about.
Couldn't agree with you more on this one, and I find it funny the guys jumping on the Jake Long bandwagon. He isn't getting picked by us and that should be plain as day. if we have the option to take either a quarterback (if he is deemed to be a franchise guy and beck isnt) or pass rusher (C Long, Gholston). We are NOT going to take Jake Long.
And I HAVE seen him play. AND I KNOW he WILL have problems with speed rushers....the guy isnt a great athlete. When Gholston played him he DID beat him like a drum. If I had to pick between the two that matchup alone should show you who the better player is. Long may be able to get by on technique if he can improve, and his somewhat long arms might help him in this regard. But this guy is a RIGHT TACKLE at this point. When he is moving backwards he isn't good. when he is moving forward he can be dominate and get to the second level blocks. I just think he is stiff and wouldnt even be a better option than Carey at LT. This guy isn't going to be a Dolphin so we can stop talking about him.
You can watch games and form an opinion without breaking down film. Whoever said otherwise is blowing smoke. I'm sure that it is an advantage, and I respect the work of intelligent posters like Boomer who do break down film, because I respect his opinion. Other guys- not so much. JLong is large and athletically skilled- large would generally be accepted as fact, athletically skilled is my opinion, backed up at least somewhat by his combine numbers. People far more knowledgeable than you or I think that he is clearly a LEFT tackle. Mel Kiper and Leon Searcy, to name 2 of them.
Maybe he'll fail at LT, who knows- none of us on this site, that's for sure. None of us are qualified to say, nor are we qualified to say for sure that he will or will not be a Dolphin. That's a misplaced certitude.
First off I can say what I want...secondly I've seen several Michigan games, and the guy was outclassed by good pass rushers. So I don't really care what Kiper said or Searcy ...and I didn't hear it for one. Boomer pointed out in his previous post about Long - EXACTLY what I was seeing. The guy gets too low on passing plays...and he DOES NOT look like an athlete....sorry dude....there is a HUGE flaw there in my opinion...the way Gholston outclassed him. makes this one a moot point...I don't want the ****tier player...sorry. I think the guy would be fine on the right side, but that doesn't cut it at the top of the draft. He might bench alot and run ok.....doesnt matter...when it comes to protecting the passer I don't want to see my left tackle unable to put himself fluidly in a position to block and have to save himself because he might have long arms...the guy is a stiff
You have a right to your opinion. I've seen several Michigan games myself- we apparently saw different things. I have my opinions, but they're not definitive fact. You seem to be on the verge of thinking that your opinion is fact, which is ridiculous. You think that Jake Long is a stiff- whatever, dude.
We'll find out in a year or two. One last thing- your first sentence, "First off I can say what I want")- no **** Sherlock. This is an internet posting site, not the United Nations. But when you say it like that it makes you sound like that other annoying candy ***. It's a punkish start to a post.
Two Tacos
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He didn't play LT for four years, he played it for the last two. The highlighted quote is the very definition of a RT. Not that IMO he couldn't play LT, just not well enough to justify passing up the other Long.
In all seriousness, I have no idea. I'd say 70/30 against.
LOL. Jake Long may be a great player. And to be honest I just remember the things that stuck out to me watching the games....and I think I have an eye for something sometimes in guys that I turn out right on...even tho the media wants to jock somebody (I know everybody thinks that - but whatever....I know it's true).....I'm not spewing opinons about a million players etc. And I certainly haven't broken down film on the guy like Boomer. However, after reading his post that he put into words so well. It brought to mind EXACTLY what i was thinking about him pass protecting. Now I personally liked the guy moving forward from what I remember...I remember a block that he made and made it to the second level and pinned a linebacker as well....and I will telll you this...I didn't see some of that going on with our line last year.....So there are some thing I like about the guy. I just don't think he is a left tackle....and therefore not worthy of a pick at the top of the draft. Do I think He can become one? Yeah maybe. I personally don't think he is the greatest athlete...he just looked stiff to me sorry. the guy had good pop and he certainly seemed to engulf some players - he seemed massive...just not athletic. His arms seem to be longer than NFL scouts look for at the position, and Certainly technique is a big thing...so if he could put himself in position...sure maybe he can play the position.....I just would rather put my money elsewhere.
In addition, if I had my choice and forget about position played needs etc. I would MUCH RATHER take a guy like Vernon Gholston than Jake Long anyday of the week and twice on Sunday. The guy simply outclassed Long. Long didn't belong on the same field......so why in the hell do I want Long over somebody like that????? stupid.
I remember a story about Bobby Knight being asked about who should go number one in the draft the year Michael Jordan came out. The team picking first needed a center and the discussion centered around that fact and the fact they should pass on Jordan. Bobby Knight said so you TAKE JORDAN AND PLAY HIM AT CENTER!
well we know how that story turned out they passed on Jordan and how did that work out?
It's just so simple..when it comes down to it, and the same thing applies here. Gholston (just using him for arguments sake) is a better football player. We need football players. We don't Draft Jake Long as high as he is going to go.
Excellent post. I typed in 2 long responses, they timed out or something which is truly annoying. Condensed version:
JLong is not Joe Thomas in pass pro from what I saw- he lacks a certain grace and fluidity. But I see him as a far better athlete than you do. If he fails at LT I move him to RT to beat people up for a decade, and I'm ok with that. The caveat is not the #1 slot IMO, it's the money. If he pre negotiates, fine. Same for the other candidates, none of them are worth mega bucks this year.
This is the year for OT- time to hit it hard in the draft, Parcells laid off in FA, which speaks volumes. Who starts at RT today, Julius Wilson? Ouch.
Logical Draft: (even though I want JLong)
1) CLong/VGholston
2) SBaker/BAlbert/GCherilius
2) Anthony Collins
3) Justin King/Erin Henderson/Charles Godfrey/John Carlson (I like Carlson)
Even in the 4th Rd I'm thinking OL- Heath Benedict. Too much need at OT and too many good players at that position to ignore. This is the year to fix the problem.
fishypete
FinHeaven Elite
Next time the Dolphins or any other team needs an expert opinion on LT's...I sure hope they ask you!
Let me add...Fat chance.
I've said it before and I'll say it again...there's not one player in this draft thats risk free...no team drafts with the idea that it's a lock...or a given that the player they select is a sure thing...it's a best possible guess after all the scouts..all the film...they are placing a bet for the future.
How many examples do I have to give you about those bets...the best example is our own Marino...How many teams let him pass...before Shula took a chance.
How many examples do you need concerning so called great Linebackers that played great in college...but failed in the NFL. I bet us older fans can think of a few.
You say you saw some Michigan games...hence you make a decision...please keep your day job. You failed to mention that a average rusher who happens to have ran a 4.69 at the combine...acquired 1361 yds at a 5.1 avg...I wonder how he got those yards. Do you think J. long had something to do with that? Lets see;
The Wolverines amassed 1,251 of their 2,144 yards on the ground over Long's left tackle position, as he registered 119 knockdowns, including 18 touchdown-resulting blocks…Allowed only one quarterback sack on 423 pass plays and was penalized just once, finishing with an 87.85% grade for blocking consistency…
As you see pass blocking is only a small part of the game...and yet he only gave up one sack...man he must be a lousy LT...for sure. And in two years...Gholston acquired only ONE sack against him...but as you say he out classed him. :shakeno: