Choosing From Nelson, James, R. Smith

[Lovethefish]

impact wise if you add derwin I think it eats into bobby mccains run primary with the 2nd nickel off the los lb being secondary

McCain becomes more of a package carry coverage based on the sticks nickel corner. derwin also gives you in addition to safety run some hybrid lb package run...also I think a derwin james add helps you hide kiko or the lb corp as a whole in coverage more

Think James impacts the entire defense in different ways. We should shift away from base 3 LB its antiquated and we have LB issues...

James arguably becomes your most talented player on back end.

Derwin James- Jones - Tank - X
TJ McDonald- Brigham -Raekwon maybe 35%?

Replace Raekwon with McCain - 25% on 2nd/3rd plus 6

 

[finmann]

It’s not a stupid question. There’s a lot of talk that James is gonna test top 5 worthy. Blow up the combine

In terms of pure bpa I think he’s better than any lb in this class. But as I’ve said all along you have to have a plan to get the full return on the pick and it can’t be plain old strong safety.

But it really depends on what they think of kiko. If they draft Roquan that will tell me Kiko is kicking inside to mike. I think tremaine Edmunds will be the top lb on their board. He still has a lot of upside in terms of recognition and awareness he has the size for the scheme and the poa/fill ask and he gives miami as an add another year to look at Kiko at weak before they have to decide to cut bait or not.

But it also should be said that miami has multiple 2 down strong options in house what we don’t have is multiple nickel weak options. Roquans range and speed would be a welcome addition. If you add him he’s a every down weakside lb. so in terms of finding snaps it’s easy. But the poa play is a weakness same for the size relative to the scheme ask. 6 foot ish and 230 isn’t the prototype for the scheme ask wise at lb not does it in just about any class validate a top 12 pick. he gets washed out at the 2nd level. I can hide that most at weak admittedly though. Allow him to run and chase more separate from the fill assignment ask.

The easier fit in terms of what we have now and kikos money for 2018 would appear to me to be adding tremaine Edmunds as the 2 down strong and nickel mike essentially Lawrence Timmons role in 2017. With much higher level consistency of play expectations and better perimeter range.

What that does is give us Edmunds and Kiko in the nickel as starters with a year to gauge Raekwon’s range and athleticism as a 2 down mike and plan b nickel mike so come 2019 we could move away from Kiko get him off the books and pair Raekwon and Edmunds as the 2 nickel backers.

I refuse to believe that they are paying Kiko $10 mil in 2018 as a going into the season plan a pine rider they are gonna want a return on that money plus I also believe they are higher on kikos play than this board is.

Of course with Kiko you get more playmaking at mike the offset being poa play with him at weak his carry coverage weakness shows up and it limits his box instincts which are above average.

There’s nothing to say come 2019 Edmunds couldn’t show enough to be a nickel weakside option either.

It’s just a matter of scheming coverage on carry stuff vs asking a man to do a lot of it in the hip as a lb. Ie more help from the safeties or drop lbs more carry coverage with less help pressure on the corners unless the sticks allow for it. Miami plays a lot of zone at the lb level by design anyways but the sticks always predicate coverages played.

The thing that always needs to be remembered here is this d won’t stop anything if it doesn’t stop the run. The lb level reads run reacts to pass. The corners and safeties have gap fill assignment accountability.

This d is built to stop the run paramount but secondary get leads and pin ears with the pass rush. The run d will suffer with Kiko kicked inside and Raekwon’s thump not between the tackles. The run d will fare best with Raekwon at mike gobbling up things between the tackles Edmunds at strong providing high level poa and fill and Kiko at weak.

Kiko at mike and Roquan at weak and you are asking for teams to run the ball downhill on you in the nickel. Yeah the range will be elite level but I’m lining up and getting to your 2nd level and washing out your lbs.

Again this all comes down to Kiko way I see it. At $10 mil he’s a plan a something and I bet ya it’s more than just base. No one pays $10 mil for a base backer

Jesus snoop what do you do. coach in your off time or something? After reading this I better take up under water basket weaving or something....my football knowledge is limited. Anyway, do you see a scenario where we can actually bring Kiko back after the 2018 season? It seemed that you are saying that is a possibility.

 

[Lovethefish]

I get it. But name me even one off the los lb that gets paid even $8 mil to ride pine?

It doesn’t happen. Considering that I think miamis best route is to add a piece with Kiko for 2018 and look into his potential replacement in 2019. Unless something as a 2 deep play draft pick most likely just plain old takes his job in season. Likely a 3rd or 4th round pick type. I can see Darius leonard being that potential guy.

Depending on how things go this season an off the los lb and a 43 de could be the primary needs come then. I know we will need at least one more de piece but we can’t force it and branches money puts him also in the rotation for 2018.

Is what it is...don’t have to like it don’t have to endorse it but probably gonna have to live with it. And try and find work arounds

I hear you and check out my earlier post as to some additional options. I don't know if you can hide Kiko - man it's a real problem.

 

[Russ57]

So Hoops, how do you feel about Vander Esch as a consolation prize in the 2nd round?

Think he can play 4-3 base SAM and also play all 3 downs?

I’m feeling the team is too committed to Kiko to consider Smith in the first and also have concerns about his ability to handle the run on 3rd down.

Best value seems likely to be in players I don’t see making huge difference right away like CB or DT or even QB.

 

[finmann]

I appreciate that, you're being nice, but I am mostly a ball watcher. Guys like Omar Kelly make fun of guys like me. I tried to read up on things, but it doesn't help that I am a hands on learner and never have played organized football. A lot of times, I have actually do things to really learn them ( I am not too bright). When the much more knowledgeable guys like Hoops, CK, Boomer, etc. get into the nitty gritty, I am totally lost. It's nice that they dumb it down so those of us around here like me can have actual discussions (if you can call it that). I appreciate the patience these guys show when it comes to guys like me!

Beach I have read many of your responses on here and I find you bring knowledge to the discussion, we don't always agree but you have an insight I like quite a bit. Guys like hoops need to be on ESPN or something....a little secret....I had to read snoops post twice to understand what the hell he was talking about, and he actually dumb it down...what does that say about me? lmao. I'm like you.....always trying to improve my football knowledge.

 

[hoops]

Think James impacts the entire defense in different ways. We should shift away from base 3 LB its antiquated and we have LB issues...

James arguably becomes your most talented player on back end.

Derwin James- Jones - Tank - X
TJ McDonald- Brigham -Raekwon maybe 35%?

Replace Raekwon with McCain - 25% on 2nd/3rd plus 6

Explain to me how you are lining up vs 12 and 13 personnel with this package? Cause based on what you are telling me I’m coming after you vs this look with 2 and 3 tight ends provided the sticks allow it. Early downs they will.

And Derwin better lock down tight ends or im gonna murder your lb level off pa carry coverage and range. Cause with a high cut weak side light in the pants backer in tj and a high cut thin torso Derwin James sniffing the los and you having to likely put a less than ideal single deep safety 20 yards off vs this look I’ve got a lot of one on ones and perimeter lb field range with Raekwon to exploit and a soft 2nd level to get to with my oline

Your offset is derwin James locks up alpha tight ends. He better cause I’m gonna find out if I’m playing you

That and Raekwon better shut it down between the tackles

I’m gonna force you into what it you don’t want to be in the most so if base lb play is your Achilles heel I’m doing everything I can provided the sticks allow to get you in it

I get enough 6 yard clips off you on early downs you will come out of this unless the scoreboard says you don’t have to

 

[The Goat]

Okay, this clip makes be want Nelson. Jesus, how did he see that guy coming and man did he annihilate him? We've got guards that cannot see or touch the player directly in front of them at times.

Jesus Christ.

 

[The Goat]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/syndic...rd-matt-millers-pre-combine-rankings.amp.html


This is interesting. Hard to believe the combine is already upon us. This weekend

It’s gonna be rotten luck if Edmunds and James are both gone come pick 11

I keep running simulation after simulation, and every time something like this happens (four QB drafted in the top 10, someone reaching for Edmunds), someone who has no business being there at 11 is there at 11. Like Chubb or Fitzpatrick.

 

[hoops]

So Hoops, how do you feel about Vander Esch as a consolation prize in the 2nd round?

Think he can play 4-3 base SAM and also play all 3 downs?

I’m feeling the team is too committed to Kiko to consider Smith in the first and also have concerns about his ability to handle the run on 3rd down.

Best value seems likely to be in players I don’t see making huge difference right away like CB or DT or even QB.

I think j off nailed this early in the process. There’s a lot of upside with Vander Esch he has the frame for strong I don’t think he’s quite where he needs to be ideally at the poa for it yet but he should grow into it. Athletically I think he plays all 3 downs. His box instincts are pretty average but so are tremaine Edmunds. I can hide both those at strong but nickel mike will be a work in progress. Game looks more mike than weak to me. It’s the frame and size and ability to add weight and not scrape the athlete that has me intrigued as a strong option and in 2 years I think the poa play will be where it needs to be.

I think he’s gonna test well I think this class overall lacks talent frankly i think post combine he carries a top 25 grade and probably comes off after Rashaan Evans and before the Texas kid who I have zero doubts like stephone Anthony will be overdrafted due to explosion athlete and teams overlooking the actual off the los lb play. I just hope like heck it’s not us at 43 who take the bait. He’s a missile but I don’t think he has much of a clue how to play off the los lb.

Long story short I’d be happy with Esch at 43. After Edmunds he probably has the most upside in the class. And the frame and athlete says 3 downs

I like Leonard too but that would be geared more towards 2019 and weak and there’s a bit of a hiccup in his cod that he makes up for with quick acceleration and length. Pick 73

Everyone’s sleeping on josey jewell too. His instincts are the best in the class. Someone’s getting a hell of a bargain.

 

[Zounds]

James is by far the best of the bunch. I don't even consider the other two prospects to be top 15 candidates.

 

[Travis34]

I think j off nailed this early in the process. There’s a lot of upside with Vander Esch he has the frame for strong I don’t think he’s quite where he needs to be ideally at the poa for it yet but he should grow into it. Athletically I think he plays all 3 downs. His box instincts are pretty average but so are tremaine Edmunds. I can hide both those at strong but nickel mike will be a work in progress. Game looks more mike than weak to me. It’s the frame and size and ability to add weight and not scrape the athlete that has me intrigued as a strong option and in 2 years I think the poa play will be where it needs to be.

I think he’s gonna test well I think this class overall lacks talent frankly i think post combine he carries a top 25 grade and probably comes off after Rashaan Evans and before the Texas kid who I have zero doubts like stephone Anthony will be overdrafted due to explosion athlete and teams overlooking the actual off the los lb play. I just hope like heck it’s not us at 43 who take the bait. He’s a missile but I don’t think he has much of a clue how to play off the los lb.

Long story short I’d be happy with Esch at 43. After Edmunds he probably has the most upside in the class. And the frame and athlete says 3 downs

I like Leonard too but that would be geared more towards 2019 and weak and there’s a bit of a hiccup in his cod that he makes up for with quick acceleration and length. Pick 73

Everyone’s sleeping on josey jewell too. His instincts are the best in the class. Someone’s getting a hell of a bargain.

i was looking at Matt miller’s pre-combine list earlier, he listed jewel as his biggest LB sleeper

 

[FSU Truth]

This is Derwin James....a safety rushing the passer over an OT

This is Derwin James playing the screen...

HE's got a little range...

He's above average in coverage...

 

[Phinatic8u]

This is Derwin James....a safety rushing the passer over an OT

This is Derwin James playing the screen...

HE's got a little range...

He's above average in coverage...

Better than Sean Taylor athletically. That isn’t satire.

He’s a freak of nature.

 

[zach attach]

How about trading back a few spots and select McGlinchey where we move Tunsil over to lt. guard?

 

[Etuoo33]

The nightmare would be that James and Edwards are both gone, and we still have the hole. Smith would probably be the pick which would be Ok I guess, but not having NFL LB size will eventually come back to haunt.