Developmental QB Myth

[GeauxFins2020]

Brady... 6th round.

ROFL....did you not read the post? I mentioned him by name and went into detail about him. Which other playoff team has a 6th rounder QBing them? How many have first rounders? It's really not even debatable, is it?

 

[Kebo]

That's because he threw 30 INTs in a single season the last time he was a starter.

So what? He would only play if Tua got hurt.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I asked in another thread, but if they decide that Tua isn't the guy, is a trade out of the question? Would Houston ever consider moving Watson?

Key part of that is "if they (the coaches) decide . . . "

It would be interesting how many people who want to draft another QB day 1 actually think it will happen. I don't think it will happen nor do I think Flo/Grier will pay the cost of a (currently) top QB

 

[ChitownPhins28]

Kind of taking it to the extreme aren’t you?

We have 3 other top 50 picks...if the red flags are high enough, we won’t see #3 again anytime soon.

You must evaluate these QB’s thoroughly to see if any beyond Lawrence are worth it.

'Any beyond Lawrence'... There arent, and even Lawrence had the bloom come off the Rose a bit.
Fields looked great but Im not flushing a year of the rebuild down the drain to start over at QB for him. Our draft capital needs to be on stepping up, not stepping back.
Tua did not forget how to play like he did in Tuscaloosa. Dolphins can get the pieces we need for Tua to be the trigger man for 'Showtime Miami'.

 

[GeauxFins2020]

You lost me on the bolded. "Good teams" don't usually pick top 10, which means "good teams" (picking 22>32) take what's left. I would argue "good teams" are "good" before they get their QB. More often than not "bad teams" remain "bad" after going through a few QBs.

As for developing, ALL rookie QBs develop, sometimes referred to as maturing or gaining experience. Some magically 'develop' after changing teams or HCs. Some (e.g., Farve) develop. Most don't

Once you apply facts to your statement, you see it is wrong, isn't it?

The Cowboys were bad when they got Aikman. The Saints were bad when they got Brees (FA). The Browns were bad when they got Baker. The Giants picked 7th to get Eli (traded up with Chargers after SD picked him) and won 2 SBs. The Chargers were bad when they got Rivers. The Colts were bad when they got Luck and Manning. The Rams were bad when they picked Goff, the Bills were bad when they got Allen, the Bears were bad when they got Trubisky, the Cardinals were bad when they got Kyler...The Chiefs traded way up to get Mahomes.

I hate to humiliate you, but this was a nonsensical statement. Extremely so, and so easy to disprove.

Not all rookie QBs develop. Some are out of the league in a year or two.

 

[AgentXof12]

I think he did. We had 3 picks in first round. We only spent one pick, did not have to move up. Very cheap. Now, the $30 mil price tag for 4 years is steep for bottom 32 performance, but it's okay, it's not going to kill us.
Bad picks do not set the team back. Hanging onto back picks sets the team back.

Well, I think value potential of the pick is being gravely underestimated. There is all kinds of talent we could draft at 5th overall. To chalk it up as a bust after one season and draft another QB with the 3rd overall is an automatic loss of value in the selection we made. You can't, or at least shouldn't, call it so prematurely. GMs need to be held to account for that, and I understand busts will happen but these are high risk selections. GMs who gamble do get burned. If Tua wasn't a so-called safe selection, then choose someone else.

Also, having 3 picks in the first round only amounts to anything if you're using them wisely. This is where the coaching staff's grade comes into play. If you're making good selections and the coaches are equipping those guys for their team roles and scheming based on those skillsets, then it looks great on the field. I can't say that about Tua so far, if you see what I mean. Either Tua is going to be a good NFL QB, and we have our man for the foreseeable, or the GM and coaches have missed big time.

 

[BlueFin]

'Any beyond Lawrence'... There arent, and even Lawrence had the bloom come off the Rose a bit.
Fields looked great but Im not flushing a year of the rebuild down the drain to start over at QB for him. Our draft capital needs to be on stepping up, not stepping back.
Tua did not forget how to play like he did in Tuscaloosa. Dolphins can get the pieces we need for Tua to be the trigger man for 'Showtime Miami'.

You’ll have to excuse me if your not the final judge on who’s worth the #3 pick...I personally haven’t done full evaluations yet.

Also, what Tua did at Alabama is irrelevant...he was loaded with NFL talent that most weeks far outclassed their opponents...he came in in relief his freshman year and won the big game, but proceeded to lose to Lawrence and Burrow the next two years when facing similar talent.

The reason I pushed for Herbert last year was he was far superior physically...as an athlete...his arm was freakish strong. Tua’s arm is not impressing me.

 

[AgentXof12]

Not if they keep winning 10 games they aren’t in any firing line.

Yeah, if they continue to win 10 or more games, then sure they will avoid getting canned... probably.

Seems like just about every coach since the 1-15 Dolphins has had a season like this one. Except Philbin. And these Dolphins just missed the playoffs, btw. This season is worthy of some praise, but it's basically predicated on which direction they go next year. Or the year after. They've got to get into the playoffs and beat somebody.

Plus, if you're spending top 10 picks, then you better have some elite talent to show for it at some position. If you're going all in on QB in the top 5 multiple seasons in a row, then maybe you better strike gold in the 2nd and 3rd rounds...

 

[fansinceGWilson]

Once you apply facts to your statement, you see it is wrong, isn't it?

The Cowboys were bad when they got Aikman. The Saints were bad when they got Brees (FA). The Browns were bad when they got Baker. The Giants picked 7th to get Eli (traded up with Chargers after SD picked him) and won 2 SBs. The Chargers were bad when they got Rivers. The Colts were bad when they got Luck and Manning. The Rams were bad when they picked Goff, the Bills were bad when they got Allen, the Bears were bad when they got Trubisky, the Cardinals were bad when they got Kyler...The Chiefs traded way up to get Mahomes.

I hate to humiliate you, but this was a nonsensical statement. Extremely so, and so easy to disprove.

Not all rookie QBs develop. Some are out of the league in a year or two.

Functional word in my post is "usually." Yep, there are teams that go from bad to good. But Aikman? 0-11 his 1st season. Dallas did well his 2nd season. Don't you think just a little of that was Emmett? Eli? He needed no development? Maybe I've forgotten, did Eli win a SB his rookie year? Certainly, you're not really using Brees as needing no development.

Poor teams USUALLY go though a number of QBs before becoming good teams. ALL QBs need development. Want to use Mahommes. He started the 1st game of his rookie year, right? Maybe it would be better to use Murray. He won a whole two more games than the previous year. He didn't develop into a better QB in '20? I fail to see the disproval.

Your post was on development. My response was ALL QBs need to develop. I'm not at al surprised TT needs to develop. I remember none who didn't

 

[Pachyderm_Wave]

You’ll have to excuse me if your not the final judge on who’s worth the #3 pick...I personally haven’t done full evaluations yet.

Also, what Tua did at Alabama is irrelevant...he was loaded with NFL talent that most weeks far outclassed their opponents...he came in in relief his freshman year and won the big game, but proceeded to lose to Lawrence and Burrow the next two years when facing similar talent.

The reason I pushed for Herbert last year was he was far superior physically...as an athlete...his arm was freakish strong. Tua’s arm is not impressing me.

You lose your way because you only apply your critics toward Tua. You don't apply that same logic to Fabio who proceeded to lose to Burrow and Fields when facing similar talent.

Lawrence is 0-1 vs Burrow; 1-1 vs. Fields.

Tua was 0-1 vs. Fabio; 1-1 vs. Burrow

Tua, Lawrence, and Burrow all have 1 national title.

 

[Vaark]

Nostraavarkus:

Tua gets a full offseason to decompress and heal; he then gets offensive help high in the draft and in Free Agency. He gets a more modern OC who can put together an offense ala Drew Brees's.

And if that doesn't work.. it's back to the well in 2023

 

[GeauxFins2020]

Functional word in my post is "usually." Yep, there are teams that go from bad to good. But Aikman? 0-11 his 1st season. Dallas did well his 2nd season. Don't you think just a little of that was Emmett? Eli? He needed no development? Maybe I've forgotten, did Eli win a SB his rookie year? Certainly, you're not really using Brees as needing no development.

Poor teams USUALLY go though a number of QBs before becoming good teams. ALL QBs need development. Want to use Mahommes. He started the 1st game of his rookie year, right? Maybe it would be better to use Murray. He won a whole two more games than the previous year. He didn't develop into a better QB in '20? I fail to see the disproval.

Your post was on development. My response was ALL QBs need to develop. I'm not at al surprised TT needs to develop. I remember none who didn't

I was responding to your assertion that most teams are good before they get a QB, which is a complete fallacy.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I was responding to your assertion that most teams are good before they get a QB, which is a complete fallacy.

Not going to go back and check. If that was, indeed, my quote, let me rephrase. 'Most teams that get a QB that plays well the rookie year are good teams.'

 

[circumstances]

What if the Jets take Sewell? If Fields is sitting there what do we do? I wonder what the FO is thinking this morning.

pray a team a few spots down loves him.

then fleece them so they can move up and take him.

draft micah parsons in their spot.

 

[circumstances]

Nostraavarkus:

Tua gets a full offseason to decompress and heal; he then gets offensive help high in the draft and in Free Agency. He gets a more modern OC who can put together an offense ala Drew Brees's.

And if that doesn't work.. it's back to the well in 2023

this should absolutely be the direction.