why does that matter........Ray Lewis should have made some tackles in pass defense and then maybe he would be in the pro bowl
please
ESPN's PTI on Zach and his Probowl Selection
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why does that matter........Ray Lewis should have made some tackles in pass defense and then maybe he would be in the pro bowl
pleasePhinsPhan
Pro Bowler
Sorry for quoting myself but I didn't feel like reprinting Crowders stats. Crowder compared to Lewis is not that far off. Lewis did not get snubbed and he is not the most feared man in the NFL anymore. There are two more linebacker on that list that have much more reason to feel snubbed than Ray Ray. Even on Baltimore Bart Scott was the most deserving player of a probowl in my opinoin and he didn't get voted on. Ray Lewis is still great and I think you would have to say a top 5 MLB, but I have always felt that Lewis relied on his physical gifts moreso than a player like Zach. I think as he passed 30 you really start to see him struggle because those have diminished as opposed to Zach who has always just been one of (if not the smartest) defensive players in the NFL.
Thomas is a game changer as much as people don't want to admit it. How good is our team without him? Him and Taylor are the only two keeping this entire team afloat and that includes offense.
I always find if funny. Whenever Urlacher gets 12 tackles and nothing else in a game they talk about how great he is and what a difference he makes. Yet when Thomas get 22 tackles and 2 FF in a game people come in and say he is not a game changer. Ridiculous.
Maimi's opponents have 64 more offensive plays than Bal's opponents- 65 more chances to accumulate tackles.
it's not about Vilma vs. Thomas it's about tackles being misleading which they can be. Zach is a very good player but he's not a HOF player but his tackle stats would suggest he's better than a Ray lewis and that is preposterous.
CRAZYDOLFAN305
We Are Still Going To The SB
Have you even bothered to compare Zach stats with other Hall of fame LB ? Here's the link http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/positions.html
Now, tell me why he's not consider a Hall of fame Lb when is stats and credentials are better than almost half of them. That includes, INT, TD and tackles..And he's still not done yet. I can agree with you when you say we suck this, you guys can't to that. But when you hatred spills to one the best LB of all time, it's just plain annoying and stupid..And I would expect you to know better, I mean you only see Zach twice a year for the last how many years. But it's cool when he gets there it will make it even better..By the way Zach has more total tackles, more forced fumbles and more Td than Ray, and I like Ray just as much as the next guy..
CRAZYDOLFAN305
We Are Still Going To The SB
So, Zach should just decide not to make any more tackles because he's having to be on the field alot longer than most because of a pathetic offense right ? I mean, if anything shows, how great he is because he's having to play alot more than most and still playing at a pro-bowl level. And if tackles are misleading than tell me SACks, Tackles for loss and Int are misleading to because Zach has better numbers in those departments as well. And How dare you have anything bad to say about Zach. Man I hate you Jets Fans. There's no way in hell you are going to convince me Ray has been better than Zach over the last four years, because that would just be preposterous and your comments are outright idiotic..
BuffaloSoldier2
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A few things:
1) Whoever said Wilbon is racist is a complete ******. He is probably the fairest and most unbiased writer in sports. Just a stupid comment all around.
2) Saying that Zach Thomas is underrated is the funniest thing I have ever hear. He's only made like 8 pro bowls but he is underrated. :shakeno: London Fletcher, who has not made one pro bowl with very similar stats to ZT, is underrated.
3) Tackles is the most overrated stat in football. ZT is a known pile jumper. Tackles aren't even official stat by the league. If your LB has lot of tackles, most likely your defense sucks. That's why the guy from Houston has so many. It doesn't necessarily mean he is a great player.
4) I have a lot of respect for ZT. He is a gamer and always brings his A game. But IMO, he didn't deserve this berth. I don't think Fletcher (because our run defense was so bad) or Lewis (missed too many games) did as well. Wilson plays for one of the best defenses in football and has a lot less talent on his D-line than ZT does. People have to look past the #s sometime.
1) Whoever said Wilbon is racist is a complete ******. He is probably the fairest and most unbiased writer in sports. Just a stupid comment all around.
2) Saying that Zach Thomas is underrated is the funniest thing I have ever hear. He's only made like 8 pro bowls but he is underrated. :shakeno: London Fletcher, who has not made one pro bowl with very similar stats to ZT, is underrated.
3) Tackles is the most overrated stat in football. ZT is a known pile jumper. Tackles aren't even official stat by the league. If your LB has lot of tackles, most likely your defense sucks. That's why the guy from Houston has so many. It doesn't necessarily mean he is a great player.
4) I have a lot of respect for ZT. He is a gamer and always brings his A game. But IMO, he didn't deserve this berth. I don't think Fletcher (because our run defense was so bad) or Lewis (missed too many games) did as well. Wilson plays for one of the best defenses in football and has a lot less talent on his D-line than ZT does. People have to look past the #s sometime.
CRAZYDOLFAN305
We Are Still Going To The SB
I guess hatred just runs in the division. Anyways, London should have went to the Pro-bowl over Al Wilson. On one hand you're suggesting because of Fletcher stats he should have made the pro-bowl, but numbers don't really mean anything...HUNH ? Bottom line no matter what you hater keep saying, Zach is heading to another pro-bowl and will mostly likely make it there again next year..So keep creating execuses while the rest of the world continues to see Zach for what he is..
Ok then according to your logic, the maximun amount of tackle Lewis could have if you add in 64 more offensive plays, if Lewis made the tackle on every single one of those plays, would he still have a better statistical year then ZT?
:shakeno:
1. Wilbon plays favorites. He's a D.C. writer. I read his column here in the Post every other day. He's a homer for the locals here and for his hometown Chicago-ites.
2. Zt is underrated. If he wasnt, HOF talk wouldnt have to be debated.
3. So why does a LB go to the Pro Bowl then if tackles are overrated? When has a LB ever let the league in sacks? or INTs? or Pass Defs? Tackles, sacks, INTs, deflections, FF and fumble recoveries all count. ZT does them all
4. Again, people looking past the numbers? The NFL is a numbers game for Christ Sake. Why do people get chosen to the HOF? b.c of personality? No, b/c of their numbers. Statisticially Al Wilson hasnt done dikk this year in comparison to others. If Fletcher has better stats, which he does, he deservses to go over Wilson
Roman529
Moon Runner / The 3 AM Crew
Everyone is overlooking one key point: Wilbon is a Washinton Post writer....the Baltimore Ravens play right next door to D.C., so naturally he has a man crush on Ray-Ray.
There you go again w/ stats. Ray has been a game changer, Zach has never been. Zach is a very good player but he's not great. Ray led a defense that carried a team to a Championship, Zach(and Taylor) have lead defenses to 5 playoff losses giving up an average of 33 points a game. There is more to the game than just stats. Zach is not a HOFer and Taylor is not a HOFer, Taylor is having a great year but I think he has zero career playoff sacks(I couldn't find a '97 boxscore but from '98-'01 he had zero sacks) and he and Zach have led supposedly top Ds into the playoff sonly to get humiliated. You wouldn't find a Ray Lewis led D giving up 3 points in a single game let alone giving up an average of 33/playoff game.
Itsdahumidity
Pro Bowler
Would you please sthu with your nonsense already! But I guess you can't help yourself. What's with the jumping all over the place? You're comparing Zach to Ray this year, then several years ago & finally to the playoffs? FOCUS MAN.
Anyway take a look at this post #89:
http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?p=1061454814#post1061454814
I see in your other post you went to the old reliable 'this isn't about jets player vs Dolphins player.' Uh, throw stones-glass house, house in order, look under ya own hood etc. I could hit you with cliche after cliche but we know it won't matter right? Buddy if you would just come with substance instead of jests hate then maybe, just maybe my Dolfan brethren wouldn't flip the script on you every time.
I wasn't comparing Zach to Lewis this year I was comparing them overall as dolphin fans(and ONLY dolphin fans) think zach is as good or better.
That post really proves it. zach is the greatest MLB in the history of the game- how could I not seeit?:rolleyes2
Itsdahumidity
Pro Bowler
And what is the title/topic of this thread, hummm? You just can't help it can ya?
That's the best comeback you have about where Zach stacks against the HOF LBs? Wittle ol nyjunc doesn't like tackles okay what about the Game Changing Ints for TDs?