ESPN's PTI on Zach and his Probowl Selection | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

ESPN's PTI on Zach and his Probowl Selection

SpurzN703 said:
1. Wilbon plays favorites. He's a D.C. writer. I read his column here in the Post every other day. He's a homer for the locals here and for his hometown Chicago-ites.

2. Zt is underrated. If he wasnt, HOF talk wouldnt have to be debated.

3. So why does a LB go to the Pro Bowl then if tackles are overrated? When has a LB ever let the league in sacks? or INTs? or Pass Defs? Tackles, sacks, INTs, deflections, FF and fumble recoveries all count. ZT does them all

4. Again, people looking past the numbers? The NFL is a numbers game for Christ Sake. Why do people get chosen to the HOF? b.c of personality? No, b/c of their numbers. Statisticially Al Wilson hasnt done dikk this year in comparison to others. If Fletcher has better stats, which he does, he deservses to go over Wilson
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1. Agreed.

2. That makes no sense. Guys who make the pro bowl every year can't be underrated. That's a total contradiction. Pro Bowls are popularity contests. I heard ZT throws a great luna party every year and that's why he keeps getting his berth. :wink: The Bills had Ruben Brown (now with the Bears). He was a very good player who made like 9 Pro Bowls in a row. But IMO, he isn't a HOFer. They same with ZT. Good player but I never would associate great with his name.

3. Perhaps, you have heard about Derrick Thomas or the real LT? :wink: I understand tackles are important but it is all around playmaking ability that should get you there. And the fact that you play on a defense that is a poor run defense should penalize you. That's why I'm not arguing for Fletcher to go (though overall he has better #s than ZT).

4. Pretty much the pro bowl is a bit of a joke. As for ZT, like I said before, I always respected him. But can you honestly put him in the class with Butkus, Singletary, Nitezche, and other great MLBs? I really don't think you can.
 
BuffaloSoldier2 said:
1. Agreed.

2. That makes no sense. Guys who make the pro bowl every year can't be underrated. That's a total contradiction. Pro Bowls are popularity contests. I heard ZT throws a great luna party every year and that's why he keeps getting his berth. :wink: The Bills had Ruben Brown (now with the Bears). He was a very good player who made like 9 Pro Bowls in a row. But IMO, he isn't a HOFer. They same with ZT. Good player but I never would associate great with his name.

3. Perhaps, you have heard about Derrick Thomas or the real LT? :wink: I understand tackles are important but it is all around playmaking ability that should get you there. And the fact that you play on a defense that is a poor run defense should penalize you. That's why I'm not arguing for Fletcher to go (though overall he has better #s than ZT).

4. Pretty much the pro bowl is a bit of a joke. As for ZT, like I said before, I always respected him. But can you honestly put him in the class with Butkus, Singletary, Nitezche, and other great MLBs? I really don't think you can.
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He doesn't have to be in that class. Nobody is arguing that he is the best LB of all-time. He is a lock for the hall of fame though. You wanna talk numbers? Really? Guess what...he has better numbers than ALL of the ones you posted. He also has played on higher ranked ddefenses than all of the ones you posted. Singletary played on 3 defenses that were ranked in the top 5. Zach has played on 6 and this year is headed for his 7th.
 
Section126 said:
He doesn't have to be in that class. Nobody is arguing that he is the best LB of all-time. He is a lock for the hall of fame though. You wanna talk numbers? Really? Guess what...he has better numbers than ALL of the ones you posted. He also has played on higher ranked ddefenses than all of the ones you posted. Singletary played on 3 defenses that were ranked in the top 5. Zach has played on 6 and this year is headed for his 7th.
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A lock for the hall? Are you kidding me? Zach and taylor are VERY good players but neither is great, neither will make the Hall. These guys were the leaders of a D that gave up 33/gm in 5 playoff losses and never even came close to reaching an AFC Title Game. They have very good #s but they aren't HOF players. From '98-'01(7 games) taylor doesn't even have a sack and it's possible he didn't get a sack at NE in '97(I don't have the box for that game). How can a player who has done nothing in the playoffs and been the leader of a D that has been humiliated in postseason be a HOF player?
 
nyjunc said:
There you go again w/ stats. Ray has been a game changer, Zach has never been. Zach is a very good player but he's not great. Ray led a defense that carried a team to a Championship, Zach(and Taylor) have lead defenses to 5 playoff losses giving up an average of 33 points a game. There is more to the game than just stats. Zach is not a HOFer and Taylor is not a HOFer, Taylor is having a great year but I think he has zero career playoff sacks(I couldn't find a '97 boxscore but from '98-'01 he had zero sacks) and he and Zach have led supposedly top Ds into the playoff sonly to get humiliated. You wouldn't find a Ray Lewis led D giving up 3 points in a single game let alone giving up an average of 33/playoff game.
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Zach is not a HOfer? Taylor is not a HOFer? :sidelol:

UH...guess what...Taylor is a FIRST BALLOT HOFer?....Zach get's in probably in the 2nd or 3rd try.

Your hate for the fins is clouding your judgement. BTW...your stats are either made up or you have arithmetic problems. But stats don't matter right?
 
nyjunc said:
A lock for the hall? Are you kidding me? Zach and taylor are VERY good players but neither is great, neither will make the Hall. These guys were the leaders of a D that gave up 33/gm in 5 playoff losses and never even came close to reaching an AFC Title Game. They have very good #s but they aren't HOF players. From '98-'01(7 games) taylor doesn't even have a sack and it's possible he didn't get a sack at NE in '97(I don't have the box for that game). How can a player who has done nothing in the playoffs and been the leader of a D that has been humiliated in postseason be a HOF player?
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I will not respond to made up numbers and stats. You better provide links to this garbage. Nevermind that off the top of my head..I know that those numbers are BS.

By your rational..these players aren't HOFer's either:

Ladanian Tomlinson
Peyton Manning
 
Section126 said:
Zach is not a HOfer? Taylor is not a HOFer? :sidelol:

UH...guess what...Taylor is a FIRST BALLOT HOFer?....Zach get's in probably in the 2nd or 3rd try.

Your hate for the fins is clouding your judgement. BTW...your stats are either made up or you have arithmetic problems. But stats don't matter right?
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it has nothing to do w/ my hate of the dolphins, it has to do w/ reality. MAYBE 20-30 years down the road Taylor gets in like so many undeserving players have gotten into the Hall but that is a remote possibility. taylor has only had double digit sacks 5 of 10 years and has zero playoff sacks in 8 games. He's NOT a HOFer, I understand you are a homer and any decent player to ever don a Heat or Dolphin jersey is a HOfer but much like 'ZO Jta nd Zach do not get in.
 
Section126 said:
I will not respond to made up numbers and stats. You better provide links to this garbage. Nevermind that off the top of my head..I know that those numbers are BS.

By your rational..these players aren't HOFer's either:

Ladanian Tomlinson
Peyton Manning
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1998 vs. Buf:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/1999010201
1998 at Den:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/1999010902

1999 at Sea:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000010902
1999 at jax:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000011501

2000 vs. Indy:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000123001
2000 at Oak:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2001010602

2001 vs. Bal:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2002011302


You are comparing Taylor and Thomas to manning and LT?:sidelol:
 
nyjunc said:
it has nothing to do w/ my hate of the dolphins, it has to do w/ reality. MAYBE 20-30 years down the road Taylor gets in like so many undeserving players have gotten into the Hall but that is a remote possibility. taylor has only had double digit sacks 5 of 10 years and has zero playoff sacks in 8 games. He's NOT a HOFer, I understand you are a homer and any decent player to ever don a Heat or Dolphin jersey is a HOfer but much like 'ZO Jta nd Zach do not get in.
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Yeah...just like ZO will never win a championship.
 
nyjunc said:
it has nothing to do w/ my hate of the dolphins, it has to do w/ reality. MAYBE 20-30 years down the road Taylor gets in like so many undeserving players have gotten into the Hall but that is a remote possibility. taylor has only had double digit sacks 5 of 10 years and has zero playoff sacks in 8 games. He's NOT a HOFer, I understand you are a homer and any decent player to ever don a Heat or Dolphin jersey is a HOfer but much like 'ZO Jta nd Zach do not get in.
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Says the jests fan with HOF envy.
 
nyjunc said:
1998 vs. Buf:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/1999010201
1998 at Den:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/1999010902

1999 at Sea:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000010902
1999 at jax:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000011501

2000 vs. Indy:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2000123001
2000 at Oak:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2001010602

2001 vs. Bal:
http://footballdb.com/boxscore/2002011302


You are comparing Taylor and Thomas to manning and LT?:sidelol:
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Those are crappy boxscores. Those boxscores also demonstrate that Zach Thomas hasn't made a tackle in a playoff game. Good work finding credible links.

I am still waiting for a real link.

BTW...JT missed 3 of those games with injury I believe.
 
Section126 said:
Those are crappy boxscores. Those boxscores also demonstrate that Zach Thomas hasn't made a tackle in a playoff game. Good work finding credible links.

I am still waiting for a real link.

BTW...JT missed 3 of those games with injury I believe.
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Now they aren't reliable boxscores? or is it that JT was hurt? let's say he missed 3 games that'ss till 5 gams w/o a sack, right? Your excuses are comical.:lol:

Sorry I couldn't give you NFL.com boxscores but it's been so long since the Dolphins made the playoffs that they don't have them anymore.
 
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