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Herbert Shines In Front Of Dolphins Brass First Senior Bowl Practice

Travis34 said:
How about Drew Brees then? Russel Wilson?
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If you have to go back nearly two decades to find 2 examples, they are outliers, not the norm. Wouldn't you agree?

I'm not saying a smaller guy can't be sucessful at all, but the poster I was replying to was throwing out the "ignorant" crap, then using two examples that haven't done a damn thing in the NFL.
 
Mach2 said:
If you have to go back nearly two decades to find 2 examples, they are outliers, not the norm. Wouldn't you agree?

I'm not saying a smaller guy can't be sucessful at all, but the poster I was replying to was throwing out the "ignorant" crap, then using two examples that haven't done a damn thing in the NFL.
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I see your point absolutely, but it just shows that shorter QBs can be successful. No guarantee a 6’5” 6’6” giant is going to be any better either..

All kinds of outliers throughout the nfl. Not concerned with size. Take the best qb not the best prototype
 
Travis34 said:
I see your point absolutely, but it just shows that shorter QBs can be successful. No guarantee a 6’5” 6’6” giant is going to be any better either..

All kinds of outliers throughout the nfl. Not concerned with size. Take the best qb not the best prototype
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I guess we just have to disagree. You don't, as a rule, take "outliers" with high first round picks.

If Tua were completely healthy, you could make a case that his skill level is worth the risk. A Doug Flutie type perhaps. I still wouldn't like it, but i can see it. Now, however, you factor in his injury history, it's just "a bridge too far" for me. Any QB is a risk to some extent. Being undersized adds to the risk. Now we have a very serious injury, and a history compounding it even further.

I get swinging for the fences, but if the pitch is low and outside you have to lay off.
 
Mach2 said:
I guess we just have to disagree. Now we have a very serious injury, and a history compounding it even further.

I get swinging for the fences, but if the pitch is low and outside you have to lay off.
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the long term history looks good

the short term history not good

the BB analogy just brutal
 
CANDolphan said:
Likewise. There's just too much junk.

GREAT clip, too. That's a stud DT, likely a top 20 pick, taking on a 2/3 rounder C and that C just stood him the **** up for 1/2 a second, left a good pocket, and even guided his man to his weak side (he's right handed, Im assuming.)

How's the very well regarded center from one of the best teams in college history going in the 2nd or 3rd? What's his flaw? Strength?
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He has boosted himself well this week with these wins 1v1. His big knock is lack of expereince as he has played all over the line. He wasnt the main communicator up front, looks/sounds like he took more of a role with that as the season progressed. And his technique can be a bit inconsistent. But 25-45 is where he will go. He has grown a lot over the last year and takes coaching seriously.
 
Dolphinator530 said:
He has boosted himself well this week with these wins 1v1. His big knock is lack of expereince as he has played all over the line. He wasnt the main communicator up front, looks/sounds like he took more of a role with that as the season progressed. And his technique can be a bit inconsistent. But 25-45 is where he will go. He has grown a lot over the last year and takes coaching seriously.
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25-35 sounds way more accurate after watching him play than these pipe dream "3rd round" grades. No chance.

The communication is pretty necessary for a center.. let's hope he's there around 37.
 
Mach2 said:
I guess we just have to disagree. You don't, as a rule, take "outliers" with high first round picks.

If Tua were completely healthy, you could make a case that his skill level is worth the risk. A Doug Flutie type perhaps. I still wouldn't like it, but i can see it. Now, however, you factor in his injury history, it's just "a bridge too far" for me. Any QB is a risk to some extent. Being undersized adds to the risk. Now we have a very serious injury, and a history compounding it even further.

I get swinging for the fences, but if the pitch is low and outside you have to lay off.
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Well, agree to disagree then.. Even a healthy Tua is question mark for you?? Everyone has their own opinions. You’re just not going to convince me 2”-4” is going to make a monumental difference
 
Travis34 said:
Well, agree to disagree then.. Even a healthy Tua is question mark for you?? Everyone has their own opinions. You’re just not going to convince me 2”-4” is going to make a monumental difference
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Analytics strongly suggest otherwise, but for every rule, there are exceptions.
 
Mach2 said:
What, exactly, have Mayfield or Murray won?

Just asking, because you are calling ppl "ignorant", then citing examples of two guys that haven't done jack. Haven't even had a winning season.
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While I havent really followed the actual discussion you're engaged in, I would like to bring another point of view. While Murray and Baker havent proven anything yet, they still got drafted 1st overall in 2 consecutive drafts. So it seems another ineffeciency has been arbitraged away when it comes to QBs.

What once kept smaller QBs from getting drafted high in the draft is now somehat irrelevant. I think its fair to say if Wilson was a prospect in the 2020 draft, he wouldnt fall past the 10 overall as that was pretty much his biggest knock coming out.

Im not trying to make a point as to wether Tua will be great or not, just that his height is not likely to be involved in teams decision making process.
 
If you're "small" as a QB in the N F L you better have some other serious compensation
for the lack of stature. Namely -- superior athletics and the ability to deliver the ball
when confronted by obstructed views via big uglies in your face!

That said, it's silly to contest the fact there are certain positional specs that tend to translate
towards positive outcomes in the PROs, and in many positions height is a significant factor.
Short QBs are at a definite disadvantage in comparison to a dude that's 6-4 or 6-5 or...

In this case SIZE definitely matters and you either got it or you don't. If you don't then you're
going to have to overcome that disadvantage through some notable superior attribute -- namely
athletics, quicks, allusiveness, whatever...

Brees is a good example because the dude is actually a terrific athlete who could dunk over the goal
post not too many years ago. Plus he's been very mobile and good on the move his entire career...

But -- would Drew Brees have benefited from being 4 or 5 inches taller?

I think that's a given.
 
One of the main aspects that have allowed shorter QB's to function at a high level in the NFL over the past 2 decades is playing in the shotgun. NFL QB's are in the shotgun about 63% of the time on average for all plays combined - and 76% on average in the shotgun on passing plays.

Furthermore, shorter QB's are more adept at manipulating and finding passing lanes than taller QB's because they have to be, and have always had to be. Taller QB's get passes batted at the LOS at a higher rate. Avoiding this has more to do with eyes and feet than height. It's possible Brees may have benefited from another 4-5 inches, but not in height.

Tua is probably the best at getting the ball off with defenders in his face than any quarterback I've seen, at any height.

I'd also disagree that Murray or Mayfield haven't proven anything yet. They've proven they're better than a lot of 6'4" quarterbacks, because a lot of them aren't very good either.
 
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