How comfortable are you with Grier spearheading the rebuild? | Page 9 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

How comfortable are you with Grier spearheading the rebuild?

Grier, Allen and McKenzie... pretty confident. What they have shown, together, purging the roster of Tannenbaum's terrible reign (which we were warned happened in NY with the Jets), and doing this against public pressure/ridicule.
 
For reference, rounds 1-2 past 4 years:
1 - wilkins
2 - *rosen

1 - Minkah
2 - gesicki

1 - c harris
2 - raekwon

1 - tunsil
2 - howard

That's 8 players, so far it looks like: 1 is all Pro, 2 have that clear all-pro upside potential (Minkah and tunsil), 3 solid starters (geisicki, wilkins, c harris), 1 great backup/marginal starter at premium position (rosen), 1 solid but limited player (raekwon).

Gesicki and Harris are closer to being busts than they are solid starters.

I think plenty of teams would live with that -- I would actually call that not great, but slightly above average.

If we wound up with a similar caliber of players in two years from rounds 1-2 with Tua at the helm, that is a strong foundation for years.

If it meant jettisoning two of the three 1st round picks? One after only 3 seasons and the other after 18 games? The goal isn't to draft players to watch them succeed on another team...at least not until their rookie deal is up. They drafted Minkah because of his versatility, and yet his unwillingness to become that Queen chess piece is the main reason we moved on. That's a miss in Grier's evaluation, one that I'm not sure Ross will forget anytime soon considering he wanted Lamar Jackson instead.
 
I am confident in the structure Grier has put in place -- specifically the addition of Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie (boots on the ground doing the down and dirty investigative work to maximize the procurement of talent).

In addition, Flores has a scouting/evaluation background and it's been clearly defined he's included in the "collaborative process."

In my view Grier has played the game many moves ahead by creating the core structure to maximize our draft potential in ADVANCE of the high-value deals (swindles?) he's orchestrated.

Even the constant nags can't deny the masterful job he's done setting this franchise up with a cache of draft bounty that's probably unparalleled.

So he completely rebuilt the scouting dept., dumped dead wood, and has undeniably done the best job we've ever seen around here leveraging assets for premium draft capital.

TBum is gone. And the stupidity of his ways are gone. Grier obviously clearly defined his "plan" to Ross and Ross (to his billionaire credit) admitted the METHOD he was behind (read TBum) was the "definition of insanity."

I think the man (Mister Grier) may have just performed the BEST rapid-fire deconstruction/reconstruction plan ever witnessed in the NFL!

And let's put it this way -- if the team he's assembled crushes the picks he's harvested the dude will be legendary!

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the salary cap bonanza he's also accumulated.

But I consider that the cherry on top!

Unprecedented draft haul? The best rapid fire reconstruction in NFL history? I thought leaded gasoline was banned years ago? The freaking Jets had 6 first-round picks in 3-years 2000-02. The Browns had 13 first-round picks and 16 second round picks between 2012-18, Grier's draft haul isn't even the best haul this decade, by a country mile.

I will concede Grier's prowess in the field of roster demolition, it is certainly unprecedented, since no one until him has been stupid enough to try it. Bravo.

But for the life of me I can't understand why I keep seeing Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie named as if they're held in high esteem as executives. I think Grier's apologists realize it's impossible to massage his record of ineptitude, so it's better to assure the fans he's got more competent advisors guiding him. He doesn't.

McKenzie's record in Oakland is quite infamous for the almost comical ineptitude of his drafts. I actually listed his picks in another thread to prove how bad he was to people who thought he was good because he selected Khalil Mack and Cooper with top 4 draft picks.

Marvin Allen's experience has only exceeded that of a scout once in his career. The 4 years he worked as director of college scouting for the Chiefs, a position of some importance, unless we're talking about Chris Grier who held the position here for 10 years, but is apparently blameless for the decades of poor drafting in Miami.

Allen of course worked under Andy Reid, John Dorsey and Chris Ballard, whose front office accolades are many, so while I credit Allen for at least learning in a successful front office, he's not a proven commodity, you speak his name like he's been an Ozzie Newsome protege for decades like Joe Douglas, Milt Hendrickson or Eric DeCosta. Groomed to run a front office for years. Allen got the job because he was worked with Grier when they were area scouts for the Pats in the 90s. The Dolphins f/o isn't playing 5-dimension chess here and Grier hasn't surrounded himself with Bobby Fischers.
 
Zero Confidence.

Almost any other organization would have fired Chris Grier a decade ago.

It is laughable to assume this complete teardown is the best strategy. The rest of the NFL seems to do just fine retooling, rebuilding and stock piling talent without gutting their roster. The rest of the NFL seems to do just fine finding and developing franchise Qbs without 0-16 tanking.

Stephen Ross has sold fans a load of absolute crap. They've basically run out of ideas on how to get better. HINT: Maybe the front office people are the problem?

What they've done is as dumb a strategy as you can possibly ever execute. They will have no margin for error if they expect to compete for championships in 3-4 years. Most likely Chris Grier will whiff on his picks and not take the best player at their position. He'll whiff on Qb while a team drafting lower and NOT TANKING will draft the better Qb.

You see in the NFL you don't need to tank to field a championship roster. In the NFL you need to rely on Chris Grier types to whiff on talent leaving the top end stuff for the astute franchises.
 
I don't care what happened when he was not calling the shots, I can tell you from what i have seen of him so far.. Getting outrageous returns for players I trust him pretty damn good because this guy gets it.. The Dolphins have been among the worst in playing common sense analytics (Trade players while they are at peak value, Gain extra draft picks, Remove bloated salarys rather then resturcturing ala tannenbaum). I trust Chris Grier more then i've trusted any other fins GM.

The only move left for him to make is to move Jones for a 3rd and Move drake to a team with injuries willing to give a 2nd or 3rd rounder.. (Im looking at you Giants)
 
After looking ahead at the Dolphins schedule, wow, do they play some questionable teams. Maybe not Dolphins bad, but bad enough to put the first overall pick into question. Jets twice (starting QB nightmare); Pittsburgh (Mason Rudolph?); Indy (Jacoby Brissett?); Redskins (yuck); New York Giants (only if Daniel Jones is the second coming); Cincinnati (they suck). God forbid the Dolphins find their footing as the season progresses and fails forward fast to a few meaningless wins.
Ah yes..."Fail forward fast"
 
Zero Confidence.

Almost any other organization would have fired Chris Grier a decade ago.

It is laughable to assume this complete teardown is the best strategy. The rest of the NFL seems to do just fine retooling, rebuilding and stock piling talent without gutting their roster. The rest of the NFL seems to do just fine finding and developing franchise Qbs without 0-16 tanking.

Stephen Ross has sold fans a load of absolute crap. They've basically run out of ideas on how to get better. HINT: Maybe the front office people are the problem?

What they've done is as dumb a strategy as you can possibly ever execute. They will have no margin for error if they expect to compete for championships in 3-4 years. Most likely Chris Grier will whiff on his picks and not take the best player at their position. He'll whiff on Qb while a team drafting lower and NOT TANKING will draft the better Qb.

You see in the NFL you don't need to tank to field a championship roster. In the NFL you need to rely on Chris Grier types to whiff on talent leaving the top end stuff for the astute franchises.
You can’t see the forest because you are too focused on the trees.
 
Unloading talent like these clowns did this year is insane and a clear display of poor coaching, not getting players to perform and buy into your system is just POOR LEADERSHIP. I am not confident at all with these asshats in charge. People here who think they will replace these lost players in the draft is just laughable.
 
Though Grier does have final say its likely Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie will steer him in the direction to go. Both are very good evaluators so they should have as much chance at success as any other NFL team. I think Grier bears far to much blame for decisions that were out of his hands.
 
What did Reggie McKenzie do? He was 32 games under .500 with the raiders and only produced one winning season. Overrated. Take a look at his drafts. Unrecognizable names. From his 2012-2018 drafts he only had 4 players that made a pro bowl and 1 player that was an all pro.
 
Though Grier does have final say its likely Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie will steer him in the direction to go. Both are very good evaluators so they should have as much chance at success as any other NFL team. I think Grier bears far to much blame for decisions that were out of his hands.

Based on what? I mean I’m seriously asking not arguing. Outside of the first round McKenzie hasnt done much. I mean even tannbaum hit on some first round players with the jets and he’s terrible at player evaluations
 
Though Grier does have final say its likely Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie will steer him in the direction to go. Both are very good evaluators so they should have as much chance at success as any other NFL team. I think Grier bears far to much blame for decisions that were out of his hands.


Then put Allen and McKenzie in as co-GM's or put Allen in as GM and bump Grier down somewhere that he's harmless. Either Grier has his fingerprints all over a bunch of bad decisions in Miami, or he's done absolutely nothing to warrant being in the position he's in. That's it. There is nothing else to it. Pick one.

Don't try to be a Grier apologist and promote the idea that only he ever did anything that was relatively competent (which ain't much) and everybody else around him for 2 decades is responsible for all the screw ups. It doesn't even make sense.
 
Based on what? I mean I’m seriously asking not arguing. Outside of the first round McKenzie hasnt done much. I mean even tannbaum hit on some first round players with the jets and he’s terrible at player evaluations
After Al Davis died I thought he did a respectable job taking an organization in shambles and getting talent onto the roster. His drafts, other then the 2014, were average at best but he was better with free agents, rebuilding, and cap management. Combined with Marvin Allen this is Miami's best front office in a couple of decades.

Would I have preferred going outside the organization for the GM? Absolutely but name me a guy that is going to be a definite hit as a GM. Truth is that an organization that hits on a franchise QB in the draft suddenly becomes more competent.
 
Ill believe they (or specifically Grier) can get it done when I see it...until then they are just failures looking for a place to happen.
 
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