I Love Our HC and GM But... | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

I Love Our HC and GM But...

Beach Bum said:
We are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one, dude. X is a great player and a Dolphin. I wish nothing but the best for him.
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You're all over the place here, man.

You absolutely DON'T wish nothing but the best for him. That's your entire stance.
 
phinking said:
Bobby McCain was released yesterday in what could reasonably be considered a salary cap move. The Dolphins have drafted 2 Safeties the last 2 years. And they also brought in Malik Hooker for a tryout. What this tells me is something I knew all along which I have been saying the day they released Minkah Fitzpatrick. They screwed up very badly on that move. McCain was never in the same class as Fitzpatrick is. And they have been trying to for 2 years now to right a wrong and they can't. It's a damn shame.
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They never released Fitzpatrick, he was traded for a 1st round pick... he was not a team first guy, he pouted like a child... Flores wants mature, team first players... letā€™s see what happens if he runs into some adversity in Pitt, will he pi$$ and moan then? Great talent, whiney bitch, glad he is gone.... they never screwed up on that move, they got rid of a top talent player that could have been a cancer I the locker room
 
So, is Minkah Fitzpatrick going to be the new Drew Brees in the minds of Dolphins fans?
 
Yeah I really hate it when the Coach and GM move on from a mistake and try to fix it. They should just stick with it no matter how badly it affects the team, that's a much better way to handle things!
 
Maybe my memory is tainted but I seem to remember Minkah struggling a lot at safety his rookie year, taking terrible angles and really only excelling when he was playing slot corner. If that was the case, I can't fault the staff for dumping him for a 1st round pick when you add his attitude on top.

Also as others have said, we were able to get Austin Jackson for that pick, so it could still turn out well for the Phins.
 
Minkah Fitzpatrick's play at Alabama was that Saban utilized him to allow the greatest affect on the game. The 'Bama Crimson Tide's defense was so dominant in every area they simply didn't allow teams time to throw the ball, so getting Minkah closer to the LOS meant he was able to affect play better. It didn't hurt that they had a string of great college safeties manning the back end. So, Minkah played the equivalent of a captain of the defense and hero back, shifting into Slot CB--an incredibly difficult position from a coverage standpoint--and a SS/LB role that could quickly thump in the run game. In a less talented defense, Saban would have employed Minkah at his best and highest valued use, FS. But when your roster consists of the best of the best every year in recruiting, and your coaching staff is among the very best at getting that development out of players ... and you're 3+ deep at every single position ... yeah, that defense is going to dominate. Couple that with the same thing on offense, putting almost every team hopelessly behind the 8-Ball almost from the beginning ... and they need to pass a lot.

Minkah wasn't a jack of all trades coming out. He was a great player who was re-purposed to help the team win. He was a vocal leader that commanded the respect of a quasi-professional locker room in a non-professional collegiate environment. He was great and ahead of his time. The obvious best use for his talent was to put him at FS and let him flourish. Yes, I was saying that since before we drafted him and continued shouting it from the rooftops since day 1 and was very very very frustrated as we took our Ferrari and forced him into Monster Truck duties and told him to adapt.

Was he vocally unhappy with becoming a Monster Truck in Coach Flo's defense? YES! But soooooo many good players are vocal and voice their dislikes. Aaron Rodgers is vocal and unhappy, stemming in large part from his teams decision to replace him rather than support him when they traded up to draft a QB instead of getting him a 2nd WR. They avoided a top WR again this year in round 1. Tom Brady was vocal and unhappy when Belichick didn't get him weapons. We're still hearing Brady whine and spit on Belichick even after instantly winning a Super Bowl ... because he can. When was Richard Sherman ever quiet? Yeah, Minkah was hardly the first football player to vocalize his displeasure ... and I'm quite certain he will not be the last. But great is great, and it doesn't come along very often. If you're a football team that cannot handle outspoken players ... you're in trouble. Beta males don't really dominate the All-Pro rosters, and they're not all that prevalent on Super Bowl winning rosters either. Strong personalities have the potential to make strong leaders in the locker room. Minkah was both. He still is. We knew that when we drafted him, and it was one of the reasons we drafted him.

We simply need to face facts. We drafted a great player and screwed it up. When faced with a difficult situation of our own creation, we chose to remove the disgruntled player from the locker room and gamble on the Steelers failing. That was always a bad gamble. At the end of the day, you cannot be perfect, and Grier certainly wasn't perfect. IMHO, he took a gut punch with this one, but he won 3 times over with the drafting and trading of Laremy Tunsil, so you take the whole package and can't really nitpick each individual item.

Look, those are the two great players that Grier drafted ... both traded ... both enabled us to build this roster. It remains to be seen whether we got value in t hose trades, but surely the Tunsil trade looks great and the Minkah trade looks bad. But, this roster is young and strong, and Coach Flo has made real strides developing them. Again ... they don't all work out, and sometimes the player isn't as good of a match with the coaching staff as we thought. Minkah is better than any safety we have or could get. So, we take it on the chin and play the best player we can get. Then we move on and get about building the best team Coach Flo can build. If he wins we celebrate him. If he doesn't we replace him. Them's the rules in the NFL ... win or go home. Let's worry about what we built, because that game of what could have been is never fun.
 
Kamelion4291 said:
Why does an All-Pro season based on a lucky 4-5 game stretch raise the bar on what Austin Jackson needs to get to in order to make the trade worth it? Minkah is no different in Pittsburgh than he was in MIami. He's a good, not great player who makes an occasional play and then gets stiff armed into next week the following play.

We were sold a bill of goods by Saban on his leadership. It is what it is.
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Cause I don't believe it is luck or a 4 or 5 good game stretch. I live in Pittsburgh. I see them every week besides watching dolphins games with nfl sunday ticket. I believe he is a really good player . Maybe the all pro stuff is a little over rated but otherwise I think he is a top safety. If you don't that is fine. But it was for a first round pick and that pick turned into Jackson. Just like Patrick Surtain use to talk about how he was traded for Mat Roth. Surtain was traded for a second rounder to the chiefs. We used that pick on Matt Roth. Surtain laughed about that. People here love to collect draft picks that they are gold. But eventually they turn into players. If the player that you take isn't as good as you drafted then the trade was a failure.

Bottom line is we are still searching for a safety. We might have got one in the draft this year. But we didn't need to trade Mikah. He had no damn leverage. He was a second year player. What was he going to do? retire or sit for 4 years?. The problem was it was Flores first year and he wanted to use Mikah a certain way. Flores wasn't going to budge because he had to show it was his way since it was his first year. I think if this happened in Flores second year he would have been more willing to listen to Mikah and make some adjustments. Let not make it out that he is not a good player. If you don;'t believe me. Ask ross, flores and grier. They had lunch and dinner with him to try to convince him to stay. They understood he was a good player.
 
Digital said:
Minkah Fitzpatrick's play at Alabama was that Saban utilized him to allow the greatest affect on the game. The 'Bama Crimson Tide's defense was so dominant in every area they simply didn't allow teams time to throw the ball, so getting Minkah closer to the LOS meant he was able to affect play better. It didn't hurt that they had a string of great college safeties manning the back end. So, Minkah played the equivalent of a captain of the defense and hero back, shifting into Slot CB--an incredibly difficult position from a coverage standpoint--and a SS/LB role that could quickly thump in the run game. In a less talented defense, Saban would have employed Minkah at his best and highest valued use, FS. But when your roster consists of the best of the best every year in recruiting, and your coaching staff is among the very best at getting that development out of players ... and you're 3+ deep at every single position ... yeah, that defense is going to dominate. Couple that with the same thing on offense, putting almost every team hopelessly behind the 8-Ball almost from the beginning ... and they need to pass a lot.

Minkah wasn't a jack of all trades coming out. He was a great player who was re-purposed to help the team win. He was a vocal leader that commanded the respect of a quasi-professional locker room in a non-professional collegiate environment. He was great and ahead of his time. The obvious best use for his talent was to put him at FS and let him flourish. Yes, I was saying that since before we drafted him and continued shouting it from the rooftops since day 1 and was very very very frustrated as we took our Ferrari and forced him into Monster Truck duties and told him to adapt.

Was he vocally unhappy with becoming a Monster Truck in Coach Flo's defense? YES! But soooooo many good players are vocal and voice their dislikes. Aaron Rodgers is vocal and unhappy, stemming in large part from his teams decision to replace him rather than support him when they traded up to draft a QB instead of getting him a 2nd WR. They avoided a top WR again this year in round 1. Tom Brady was vocal and unhappy when Belichick didn't get him weapons. We're still hearing Brady whine and spit on Belichick even after instantly winning a Super Bowl ... because he can. When was Richard Sherman ever quiet? Yeah, Minkah was hardly the first football player to vocalize his displeasure ... and I'm quite certain he will not be the last. But great is great, and it doesn't come along very often. If you're a football team that cannot handle outspoken players ... you're in trouble. Beta males don't really dominate the All-Pro rosters, and they're not all that prevalent on Super Bowl winning rosters either. Strong personalities have the potential to make strong leaders in the locker room. Minkah was both. He still is. We knew that when we drafted him, and it was one of the reasons we drafted him.

We simply need to face facts. We drafted a great player and screwed it up. When faced with a difficult situation of our own creation, we chose to remove the disgruntled player from the locker room and gamble on the Steelers failing. That was always a bad gamble. At the end of the day, you cannot be perfect, and Grier certainly wasn't perfect. IMHO, he took a gut punch with this one, but he won 3 times over with the drafting and trading of Laremy Tunsil, so you take the whole package and can't really nitpick each individual item.

Look, those are the two great players that Grier drafted ... both traded ... both enabled us to build this roster. It remains to be seen whether we got value in t hose trades, but surely the Tunsil trade looks great and the Minkah trade looks bad. But, this roster is young and strong, and Coach Flo has made real strides developing them. Again ... they don't all work out, and sometimes the player isn't as good of a match with the coaching staff as we thought. Minkah is better than any safety we have or could get. So, we take it on the chin and play the best player we can get. Then we move on and get about building the best team Coach Flo can build. If he wins we celebrate him. If he doesn't we replace him. Them's the rules in the NFL ... win or go home. Let's worry about what we built, because that game of what could have been is never fun.
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I 100 Percent Agree.
 
Padfoot said:
Maybe my memory is tainted but I seem to remember Minkah struggling a lot at safety his rookie year, taking terrible angles and really only excelling when he was playing slot corner. If that was the case, I can't fault the staff for dumping him for a 1st round pick when you add his attitude on top.

Also as others have said, we were able to get Austin Jackson for that pick, so it could still turn out well for the Phins.
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People also forget that flores tried very hard to work with minkah. You cannot have one player on defense telling you what he is gonna do, then having the other ten doing another thing. It doesn't create the strongest atmosphere.

Talented players are important. But minkah's attitude and unwillingness to move around were huge issues. Nobody else had a problem at then end of the year, only him.
 
phinking said:
Bobby McCain was released yesterday in what could reasonably be considered a salary cap move. The Dolphins have drafted 2 Safeties the last 2 years. And they also brought in Malik Hooker for a tryout. What this tells me is something I knew all along which I have been saying the day they released Minkah Fitzpatrick. They screwed up very badly on that move. McCain was never in the same class as Fitzpatrick is. And they have been trying to for 2 years now to right a wrong and they can't. It's a damn shame.
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When we gonna let this prima Donna dude live on with his other team? He didn't want to do what he claimed he loved when he was drafted. A jack of all trades. He simply didn't want to be a dolphin and for that, see ya. He made the pro bowl off of 5 games the year before and the Steeler fans were calling for his head the majority of last year.

He's good. Not great. He's not a dolphin. The Dolphins DID NOT screw up. They have players who want to be Dolphins. That's a win. Period.
 
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