"I'm taking Ryan over Big Ben..." - Crowder | Page 7 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

"I'm taking Ryan over Big Ben..." - Crowder

Hines Ward is not a HOF'er? Joey Porter and Plaxico Burress both ALL-Pros that year and in their primes, this guy just had to show up to work
 
ShorePhin said:
Hines Ward is not a HOF'er? Joey Porter and Plaxico Burress both ALL-Pros that year and in their primes, this guy just had to show up to work
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I am not sure if Ward makes the Hall.

Porter was a very good player, he's not a HOFer and I was more discussing the offensive side of the ball. the weapons he had to work with.

Burress never even made a pro bowl let alone all pro but hew as a good player but he only played 11 games w/ Ben and caught 35 balls that rookie season for Ben.

year 2 he got Willie Parker and willie was a HR threat at any time.
 
nyjunc said:
I get what he was saying but again he's still wrong. Ben is only 32, he has many years ahead of him of high level play and we don't know if Ryan will ever be a high level QB. we can think that and assume that but until it happens we don't know.
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Ok you just typed it and didn't even realize it. They were discussing his probable trajectory players get projected all the time by their similar peers and accumulated data. You are just dismissing any outcome where Tannehill can even approach Roethlisberger . Also Maddox, Batch and couple of other chucklehead started for that Pitt team because of Roethlisberger injuries they never skipped a beat.
 
nyjunc said:
isn't it interesting how many SBs Dick won w/o Ben?

Pitt had a really good D, they were a D first team but you still need good QB play to win and going 13-0 w/ Ben in the reg season after going 6-10 the year before suggest he may have played a role in helping them get better. I know it's crazy to think that, anything to make Ryan look better than he actually is I guess. we'll even try to tear down a future HOFer for Ryan.

---------- Post added at 02:15 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:14 PM ----------



Ben had Hines Ward as a rookie, really good player. who else? check his weapons, tell me who else he had on offense?
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After a quick google search, the 2008 squad had Miller at TE, Ward and Holmes at WR to name a few.

2005 had Willie Parker and Bettis at RB. Antwaan Randle El, Ward and Miller receiving.

I think the most relevant point to the argument I'm making is Ben had an all-time GREAT defense he played with. As a young QB there couldn't have been a more stabilizing force in any QB's career.
 
Ben's first year he had a hell of a team compared to what tannehill had to work with. He had a great oline and skill position players way better than what tanny had.

Duce Staley
Hines Ward
Plasxico Burress
Marvel Smith - LT - 2nd round pick
Alan Faneca - LG
Jeff Hartings - C - First round pick
Jerome Bettis

James Farrior
Chris Haggans
Larry Foote
Joey Porter
Troy Polamalu

The 2005 superbowl year

Willie Parker - 1200 yards rushing 5 TD
Hines Ward
Randle El
James Farrior
Larry Foote
Joey Porter
Ike Taylor
Troy Polamalu

Ben was 168\ 268 for 2385 yards and 17td with 9 INT's In Tannehills Second season he was 355\588 3913 24TD 17INT's

What does this tell us? Tells us that Pittsburg asked Ben to do a hell of a lot less than what Tannehill was asked to do. Tells us that Pitt must have had a hell of a running game. And in conclusion, seeing the trajectory of Tannehill getting better every year he's been in the league, Given the right pieces I can see him becoming a better QB thank Big Ben. Only Time Will Tell
 
nyjunc said:
I am not sure if Ward makes the Hall.

Porter was a very good player, he's not a HOFer and I was more discussing the offensive side of the ball. the weapons he had to work with.

Burress never even made a pro bowl let alone all pro but hew as a good player but he only played 11 games w/ Ben and caught 35 balls that rookie season for Ben.

year 2 he got Willie Parker and willie was a HR threat at any time.
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I didn't say Plax or Porter were HOF' just AP's
 
ShorePhin said:
Ok you just typed it and didn't even realize it. They were discussing his probable trajectory players get projected all the time by their similar peers and accumulated data. You are just dismissing any outcome where Tannehill can even approach Roethlisberger . Also Maddox, Batch and couple of other chucklehead started for that Pitt team because of Roethlisberger injuries they never skipped a beat.
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I think Ryan can be a good QB but I have a hard time projecting him to be on the level of a HOF guy.

Maddox started in 2003, they went 6-10.

2004 Ben 13-0 others 2-1
2005 Ben 9-3, others 2-2
2006 ben 7-8, others 1-0
2007 Ben 10-5, others 0-1
2009 Ben 9-6, others 0-1
2010 Ben 9-3, others 3-1
2011 Ben 11-4, others 1-0
2012 Ben 7-6, others 1-2

in those years he missed games Pitt was 75-35(68%), w/ others 10-8(56%). that's a pretty significant difference.
 
ohall said:
After a quick google search, the 2008 squad had Miller at TE, Ward and Holmes at WR to name a few.

2005 had Willie Parker and Bettis at RB. Antwaan Randle El, Ward and Miller receiving.

I think the most relevant point to the argument I'm making is Ben had an all-time GREAT defense he played with. As a young QB there couldn't have been a more stabilizing force in any QB's career.
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that all time great D wasn't 1st or 2nd in PA in 2005.

In the 2005 playoffs everyone remembers the SB where Ben sucked but they forget how great he was in the 3 AFC playoff games.

AFC playoffs he led O to 29 PPG, D allowed 17 PPG

In 4 biggest games of Ryan's career in reg season(games that determined their playoff fates the last 2 years) Ryan led O to 8 PPG.
 
nyjunc said:
I think Ryan can be a good QB but I have a hard time projecting him to be on the level of a HOF guy.

Maddox started in 2003, they went 6-10.

2004 Ben 13-0 others 2-1
2005 Ben 9-3, others 2-2
2006 ben 7-8, others 1-0
2007 Ben 10-5, others 0-1
2009 Ben 9-6, others 0-1
2010 Ben 9-3, others 3-1
2011 Ben 11-4, others 1-0
2012 Ben 7-6, others 1-2

in those years he missed games Pitt was 75-35(68%), w/ others 10-8(56%). that's a pretty significant difference.
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the won better than 50% of games not started by Roethlisberger try looking at the NFL % of wins of NFL teams starting their backup QB's you'll find your answer there
 
JTech194 said:
Ben was 168\ 268 for 2385 yards and 17td with 9 INT's In Tannehills Second season he was 355\588 3913 24TD 17INT's

What does this tell us? Tells us that Pittsburg asked Ben to do a hell of a lot less than what Tannehill was asked to do. Tells us that Pitt must have had a hell of a running game. And in conclusion, seeing the trajectory of Tannehill getting better every year he's been in the league, Given the right pieces I can see him becoming a better QB thank Big Ben. Only Time Will Tell
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Why does this thread need any further discussion after that? Nobody saying who is better....just the indisputable facts comparing apples to apples.
 
nyjunc said:
that all time great D wasn't 1st or 2nd in PA in 2005.

In the 2005 playoffs everyone remembers the SB where Ben sucked but they forget how great he was in the 3 AFC playoff games.

AFC playoffs he led O to 29 PPG, D allowed 17 PPG

In 4 biggest games of Ryan's career in reg season(games that determined their playoff fates the last 2 years) Ryan led O to 8 PPG.
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I am not sure why I am discussing quarterbacks with a New York Jets fan. Have a great day.
 
ShorePhin said:
the won better than 50% of games not started by Roethlisberger try looking at the NFL % of wins of NFL teams starting their backup QB's you'll find your answer there
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years marino missed games during his career his backups went 15-13.
 
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