Mike Gesicki, What’s The Plan? | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Mike Gesicki, What’s The Plan?

Gesicki
32 tgts, 22 rec 202 yds 9.2 y/r 0tds 12.6 ypg 68.8% catch

Goedert
44 tgts, 33 rec 334 yds 10.1 y/r 4tds 20.9 ypg 75% catch

You have to take into account their situations along with their stats. Goedert has pro bowler Ertz to learn from, and a much better offense/QB. Gesicki had nobody to learn from and was pretty much on display during training camp like the bearded lady instead of being developed properly. The offense was trash and his QBs were mediocre.
Great point @Superself and thanks for posting thes stats.

The stats show that both had productive rookie seasons, and while Goedert had more targets. If you watched their games you saw that Gesicki was given a lot more attention, being double-teamed as a rookie TE is tremendously high praise, while Goedert was the #2 TE and I don't think he ever faced a double-team. To listen to this thread you'd think that Goedert dramatically outplayed Gesicki as a rookie … but that wasn't the case, and the stats bear this out.

Neither of those lines are high-end TE numbers, they're bit player numbers. People declaring Goedert a success off of those numbers are projecting big time, and would do well to apply the same standard to all TE's, including Gesicki. We did look to Gesicki in the end zone a few times … but he was either double-covered or had a very poorly thrown ball if you recall. Those are the reasons for the lack of TD's. The 9.2 y/r vs. Goedert's 10.1 y/r numbers are quite close, but most of that has to do with our OL not providing enough time to throw deeper routes so we saw less seam routes. The catch % isn't bad, but I'm confident that it will improve for both of them. Gesicki proved in college that he makes catches … he just needs to gain reps and confidence and we'll see it more consistently.
 
I think you guys are all rushing to judgement before the evidence Is in. I thought that with Xavien Howard and was right. Just like I had belief in Howard when everyone was calling him a bust and a dumb draft move to move up and get him, I held the faith because I knew that it takes a while for press-man corners to adapt to the NFL.

Similarly, TE's take a while to adapt to the NFL. Even the very few exceptions to that rule will tell you that. Gronkowski was out his entire senior season with a back injury … so he had plenty of time to study, rest, and prepare for the NFL, and it helped his transition. Jimmy Graham--the best corollary for Mike Gesicki--will tell you that he ran around not knowing what he was doing as a rookie, and Drew Brees just made it work as he endured a painful growth curve during a super-successful rookie season. But even then, Graham was not asked to block at all. He was just struggling with the receiver portion of the job.

For everyone criticizing Adam Gase for Gesicki's development, I wholeheartedly disagree. I praise Gase for developing Gesicki into a full-service, well-rounded TE. Gase was trying to make Gesicki the next Gronkowski, not the next Jimmy Graham, and for that I applaud him. Gase stressed the grunt work of the blocking and insisted that Gesicki get that down before he was given many snaps as a receiving TE. It worked. Gesicki, who had not really even tried as a blocker in college, suddenly put in a lot of effort and improved significantly. He didn't become a good blocker overnight or anything, but he definitely improved. Adam Gase took a long term view of the player, and IMHO, that is the right approach. Gase fully expected to be leading the dolphins in 2019, when I think we will see Gesicki start to blossom.

As a receiving TE, Gesicki's head was spinning, as the information overload did to him what it does to almost every rookie TE, crams so much information into his head he is constantly thinking rather than instinctively acting/reacting. This means that his playspeed appears slow, despite his physical ability being extremely fast. It manifests itself in indecision rather than confidence, which translates to dropped passes and poor route running. We saw that from Mike in 2018 … and it was 100% typical of a rookie TE. But, as he learns the techniques so that they feel instinctual, learns the playbook so that he is merely acting and letting his natural athletic ability take over, and gains confidence so that he takes charge of what's happening rather than simply trying to keep up and make the right decision … we will see the player we drafted.

Remember, Mike Gesicki came to Penn State as a WR, so becoming a TE was new to him and blocking was something he rarely concentrated on doing. He wasn't asked to do it very often, so much of that required him to learn new things and practice a new way. He embraced it, and improved. As a freshman at Penn State he had bad hands, he dropped too many passes, and the fans let him know it. He vowed to improve, and by his last season he entered the draft as the TE with the highest percentage of catches per target. That means he had the best hands of all the TE's entering the draft … yes, that includes Dallas Goedert.

So why did Gesicki drop passes as a rookie? Because he wasn't playing at full speed with confidence. Rather, he was trying to decipher the play, concentrating on the route, and trying not to screw those things up, and when the ball came, he lacked the confidence to out-muscle DB's for the ball, despite having the physical ability to do so. It's normal, and to be expected. It is also something we expect to be fixed by year 2 or 3. Learning a new scheme this year will delay that learning curve a bit, but at some point this season I expect to see Mike Gesicki prove he was the clear best TE in that draft, and an excellent draft pick. He has the work ethic and elite athletic ability to become a dominant Jimmy Graham type TE, and I expect him to become that player as he lives up to his potential.

People criticizing Mike Gesicki now are rushing to judgement, IMHO. By the time his rookie contract ends I'm confident that we'll be super-excited about his play and very hopeful of re-signing him long term. But, the TE position takes time. It's not one of those positions like RB, where everything in college just translates. The TE position is ten times harder in the NFL than what is asked of TE's in college … and that takes time.

Well written and thought out post. I cringe on the part about Gase letting Gesicki go through the process of learning the dirty part of the job (blocking etc) in order to make him a more well rounded player. If true, then I have to give credit where credit is due. He improved by the end of the season. Nothing earth shattering. But considering where he started he made respectable progress.

Now, the guy can flat out catch the ball. If you watch how he looks the ball in with his eyes and snatches out of the air, it's impressive! I would not be shocked if he(with the departure of Landry) is one of the purest catchers on the entire team.

I can't wait until they start integrating him into the passing game.
 
Jimmy Graham was helluva PF/C at UM before playing football. Any comparison to Mike Gesicki is weak.

I would love to see the stats comparison. I'm also betting that they(at least receiving wise) aren't that heavily weighted in Grahams favor. Now, I'm not saying Gesicki is the next Graham, but I am saying that he can be respectable compared to Graham.
 
Last edited:
Stand pat. Trust your draft picks last year. Hit the weight room, develop his craft, improve his and Smythe's abiity.

Honestly, with the small amount if money we have in TE AND two 2nd year prospects, you don't spend anything on TE.

Let these guys prove out and fill other holes that are going to be created

TE is the one position we should do nothing.
 
Damn didn’t even think about trading him until you asked. Why did you have to go there?

I would set the over/under trade value for MG at at the value of the 79th pick in the draft.

He’s got all that athleticism and a clean bill of health. Surely I/we believe a year in the weight room will showcase a completely different player.

I am not trading him for a late third, that’s for sure.
Lol, I might eat crow on this one but like Awsi says all the time, stay with your predraft instinct..That rookie season played out exactly as I expected so for a third I would do backflips.
 
Great point @Superself and thanks for posting thes stats.

The stats show that both had productive rookie seasons, and while Goedert had more targets. If you watched their games you saw that Gesicki was given a lot more attention, being double-teamed as a rookie TE is tremendously high praise, while Goedert was the #2 TE and I don't think he ever faced a double-team. To listen to this thread you'd think that Goedert dramatically outplayed Gesicki as a rookie … but that wasn't the case, and the stats bear this out.

Neither of those lines are high-end TE numbers, they're bit player numbers. People declaring Goedert a success off of those numbers are projecting big time, and would do well to apply the same standard to all TE's, including Gesicki. We did look to Gesicki in the end zone a few times … but he was either double-covered or had a very poorly thrown ball if you recall. Those are the reasons for the lack of TD's. The 9.2 y/r vs. Goedert's 10.1 y/r numbers are quite close, but most of that has to do with our OL not providing enough time to throw deeper routes so we saw less seam routes. The catch % isn't bad, but I'm confident that it will improve for both of them. Gesicki proved in college that he makes catches … he just needs to gain reps and confidence and we'll see it more consistently.

I do hope so, but the tremendous liability inline makes him completely one dimensional, his route running is suspect, the movement isn’t sharp, so I believe the cover isn’t that difficult, the core strength isn’t there so being physical off the line isnt there..The run after the catch isn’t there because the coordination and agility in close quarters isn’t there..Also Digital, how many of those 22 catches were in garbage time..?

I don’t know if him being able to run free and jump and catch is all that appealing when I look at the overall picture of his game relative to what I could find with a third rounder, even a fourth..
 
Last edited:
I think you guys are all rushing to judgement before the evidence Is in. I thought that with Xavien Howard and was right. Just like I had belief in Howard when everyone was calling him a bust and a dumb draft move to move up and get him, I held the faith because I knew that it takes a while for press-man corners to adapt to the NFL.

Similarly, TE's take a while to adapt to the NFL. Even the very few exceptions to that rule will tell you that. Gronkowski was out his entire senior season with a back injury … so he had plenty of time to study, rest, and prepare for the NFL, and it helped his transition. Jimmy Graham--the best corollary for Mike Gesicki--will tell you that he ran around not knowing what he was doing as a rookie, and Drew Brees just made it work as he endured a painful growth curve during a super-successful rookie season. But even then, Graham was not asked to block at all. He was just struggling with the receiver portion of the job.

For everyone criticizing Adam Gase for Gesicki's development, I wholeheartedly disagree. I praise Gase for developing Gesicki into a full-service, well-rounded TE. Gase was trying to make Gesicki the next Gronkowski, not the next Jimmy Graham, and for that I applaud him. Gase stressed the grunt work of the blocking and insisted that Gesicki get that down before he was given many snaps as a receiving TE. It worked. Gesicki, who had not really even tried as a blocker in college, suddenly put in a lot of effort and improved significantly. He didn't become a good blocker overnight or anything, but he definitely improved. Adam Gase took a long term view of the player, and IMHO, that is the right approach. Gase fully expected to be leading the dolphins in 2019, when I think we will see Gesicki start to blossom.

As a receiving TE, Gesicki's head was spinning, as the information overload did to him what it does to almost every rookie TE, crams so much information into his head he is constantly thinking rather than instinctively acting/reacting. This means that his playspeed appears slow, despite his physical ability being extremely fast. It manifests itself in indecision rather than confidence, which translates to dropped passes and poor route running. We saw that from Mike in 2018 … and it was 100% typical of a rookie TE. But, as he learns the techniques so that they feel instinctual, learns the playbook so that he is merely acting and letting his natural athletic ability take over, and gains confidence so that he takes charge of what's happening rather than simply trying to keep up and make the right decision … we will see the player we drafted.

Remember, Mike Gesicki came to Penn State as a WR, so becoming a TE was new to him and blocking was something he rarely concentrated on doing. He wasn't asked to do it very often, so much of that required him to learn new things and practice a new way. He embraced it, and improved. As a freshman at Penn State he had bad hands, he dropped too many passes, and the fans let him know it. He vowed to improve, and by his last season he entered the draft as the TE with the highest percentage of catches per target. That means he had the best hands of all the TE's entering the draft … yes, that includes Dallas Goedert.

So why did Gesicki drop passes as a rookie? Because he wasn't playing at full speed with confidence. Rather, he was trying to decipher the play, concentrating on the route, and trying not to screw those things up, and when the ball came, he lacked the confidence to out-muscle DB's for the ball, despite having the physical ability to do so. It's normal, and to be expected. It is also something we expect to be fixed by year 2 or 3. Learning a new scheme this year will delay that learning curve a bit, but at some point this season I expect to see Mike Gesicki prove he was the clear best TE in that draft, and an excellent draft pick. He has the work ethic and elite athletic ability to become a dominant Jimmy Graham type TE, and I expect him to become that player as he lives up to his potential.

People criticizing Mike Gesicki now are rushing to judgement, IMHO. By the time his rookie contract ends I'm confident that we'll be super-excited about his play and very hopeful of re-signing him long term. But, the TE position takes time. It's not one of those positions like RB, where everything in college just translates. The TE position is ten times harder in the NFL than what is asked of TE's in college … and that takes time.
I appreciate this post, it’s detailed and you are going out on a limb with your projection and it’s clear, however I think the ones who didn’t want to draft him and had the same concerns before the draft are the ones that have legit concern now and are suggesting to try to gain an asset with the new regime, we all only want what’s best for the team, so trying to recoup instead of just hoping is the way to go in this specific case imo.

I’ve got to feel that in the front office it’s about analyzing every individual player, placing a value, figuring out if he’s our type of player and then either finding a role or finding out if we can gain an asset..
 
Last edited:
You forget he had the worst oc in the league and was so predictable, and grey was supposed to be the #1 te, but went down early, let’s wait and see what a real o. And a offseason can do for him
 
I think you guys are all rushing to judgement before the evidence Is in. I thought that with Xavien Howard and was right. Just like I had belief in Howard when everyone was calling him a bust and a dumb draft move to move up and get him, I held the faith because I knew that it takes a while for press-man corners to adapt to the NFL.

Similarly, TE's take a while to adapt to the NFL. Even the very few exceptions to that rule will tell you that. Gronkowski was out his entire senior season with a back injury … so he had plenty of time to study, rest, and prepare for the NFL, and it helped his transition. Jimmy Graham--the best corollary for Mike Gesicki--will tell you that he ran around not knowing what he was doing as a rookie, and Drew Brees just made it work as he endured a painful growth curve during a super-successful rookie season. But even then, Graham was not asked to block at all. He was just struggling with the receiver portion of the job.

For everyone criticizing Adam Gase for Gesicki's development, I wholeheartedly disagree. I praise Gase for developing Gesicki into a full-service, well-rounded TE. Gase was trying to make Gesicki the next Gronkowski, not the next Jimmy Graham, and for that I applaud him. Gase stressed the grunt work of the blocking and insisted that Gesicki get that down before he was given many snaps as a receiving TE. It worked. Gesicki, who had not really even tried as a blocker in college, suddenly put in a lot of effort and improved significantly. He didn't become a good blocker overnight or anything, but he definitely improved. Adam Gase took a long term view of the player, and IMHO, that is the right approach. Gase fully expected to be leading the dolphins in 2019, when I think we will see Gesicki start to blossom.

As a receiving TE, Gesicki's head was spinning, as the information overload did to him what it does to almost every rookie TE, crams so much information into his head he is constantly thinking rather than instinctively acting/reacting. This means that his playspeed appears slow, despite his physical ability being extremely fast. It manifests itself in indecision rather than confidence, which translates to dropped passes and poor route running. We saw that from Mike in 2018 … and it was 100% typical of a rookie TE. But, as he learns the techniques so that they feel instinctual, learns the playbook so that he is merely acting and letting his natural athletic ability take over, and gains confidence so that he takes charge of what's happening rather than simply trying to keep up and make the right decision … we will see the player we drafted.

Remember, Mike Gesicki came to Penn State as a WR, so becoming a TE was new to him and blocking was something he rarely concentrated on doing. He wasn't asked to do it very often, so much of that required him to learn new things and practice a new way. He embraced it, and improved. As a freshman at Penn State he had bad hands, he dropped too many passes, and the fans let him know it. He vowed to improve, and by his last season he entered the draft as the TE with the highest percentage of catches per target. That means he had the best hands of all the TE's entering the draft … yes, that includes Dallas Goedert.

So why did Gesicki drop passes as a rookie? Because he wasn't playing at full speed with confidence. Rather, he was trying to decipher the play, concentrating on the route, and trying not to screw those things up, and when the ball came, he lacked the confidence to out-muscle DB's for the ball, despite having the physical ability to do so. It's normal, and to be expected. It is also something we expect to be fixed by year 2 or 3. Learning a new scheme this year will delay that learning curve a bit, but at some point this season I expect to see Mike Gesicki prove he was the clear best TE in that draft, and an excellent draft pick. He has the work ethic and elite athletic ability to become a dominant Jimmy Graham type TE, and I expect him to become that player as he lives up to his potential.

People criticizing Mike Gesicki now are rushing to judgement, IMHO. By the time his rookie contract ends I'm confident that we'll be super-excited about his play and very hopeful of re-signing him long term. But, the TE position takes time. It's not one of those positions like RB, where everything in college just translates. The TE position is ten times harder in the NFL than what is asked of TE's in college … and that takes time.


There’s nothing about his game that’s well rounded.

I don’t care how many 1000s of words you want to write
 
Stand pat. Trust your draft picks last year. Hit the weight room, develop his craft, improve his and Smythe's abiity.

Honestly, with the small amount if money we have in TE AND two 2nd year prospects, you don't spend anything on TE.

Let these guys prove out and fill other holes that are going to be created

TE is the one position we should do nothing.
have you liked at TJ hockenson yet?
 
Stand pat. Trust your draft picks last year. Hit the weight room, develop his craft, improve his and Smythe's abiity.

Honestly, with the small amount if money we have in TE AND two 2nd year prospects, you don't spend anything on TE.

Let these guys prove out and fill other holes that are going to be created

TE is the one position we should do nothing.
I could get on board with one more year as long as I put out the calls to see if there is someone willing to give me a third, then it becomes a real decision, not just another chance.
 
There’s nothing about his game that’s well rounded.

I don’t care how many 1000s of words you want to write

What kills me about Gesicki is how uncoordinated he looks on the field. Dude spends 1/3rd of the time flopping around on the ground and the other 2/3rds being bullied off his line and running like a drunk 3 legged baby Giraffe.

I will be shocked if he is still in the NFL in 4 years.
 
What kills me about Gesicki is how uncoordinated he looks on the field. Dude spends 1/3rd of the time flopping around on the ground and the other 2/3rds being bullied off his line and running like a drunk 3 legged baby Giraffe.

I will be shocked if he is still in the NFL in 4 years.


2 years alliance of American football league


That frames got no place in tbe nfl. Even coby fleener was more twitchy
 
The usage excuse is a joke too. He didn’t win flexed he didn’t win split he didn’t win on iso.

Yeah max protect you don’t want him at the poa block ask or in the run game but that’s not why this guys on a fast track out the league already.

It’s cause he was drafted to be an iso flex/split consistent win option.

It’s his meal ticket and he showed zero of it and zero reason to bet on it.

Space stalk block was the only thing he did at an even average level and that’s largely a wr ask.
 
If they could trade him before he is exposed again next year sign me up, I dont see it.

Some of the decisions the coaching staff and Grier make on personnel will show us alot.
 
Back
Top Bottom