NFL people offer cautionary warning to Dolphins.

[EJay]

Note Mark’s title is former Tampa gm.

Thanks, I clearly missed that. So he probably knows even less about the inner workings of the Dolphins FO (especially after all the offseason changes) than I gave him credit for.

 

[Danny]

the raiders traded Mack and Cooper and nobody complained......why can't we trade whoever we want to?

 

[finomenal]

Wingo and the other dude Mike Greenberg, on ESPN, who are both Jet Fans are throwing HISSY FITS, over what Miami has done. The are like little girls crying and complaining about the Miami Dolphins!!! Give me a break MAN!!! Finally Stephen Ross shows some Ballz and fires the 2 wanna be idiots in Tannenbaum and Gase, so he could move forward with a bold plan to reset his Franchise. It may or may not work? But it was needed. Too many times Miami tried the quick fix option, without success. Too many wasted F/A signings of over the hill, injury prone vets. Now they can build from the ground up. Too bad Greenberg an Wingo aren't liking it. Nobody cares about those 2 buffoons at ESPN anyway. As far as Vontea Davis goes, go pound dirt!!! I hear Johnny Walker likes hanging with you Vontae.

Lol I don't watch that trash anymore, but I figured that's what it would be. The onslaught from the national media and fans across the country will be the special type reserved for Miami teams.

Bring it. We're used to being sports villains down here.

It's this bad now. Imagine the fever pitch when draft day arrives. Dolphins will be the #1 story. People shaking their collective fists at the Dolphins for "ruining the integrity of the league."

 

[EJay]

I can see a “Miami Dolphin rule” where you sacrifice a top pick for failing to field a viable team in an obvious tank fire sale. This isn’t fair to the fans and people who bought tickets. You can’t just come in and trade every piece worth anything for a makeover. It shouldn’t be allowed.

Was it fair to the fans to be mediocre to bad for most of the past 25 years?

They’ve tried remaining relevant via FA. It hasn’t worked.

Now they are being responsible with the cap and stockpiling draft picks.

If it works out, I’d rather suffer through one or two really bad seasons than another 25 of what we’ve already seen.

Isn’t that more fair to the fans?

 

[Viggen]

We aren’t fielding a competent NFL team. This is like the scrubs/scabs walkout year. It isn’t a legitimate product to sell. We are not trading for bodies to play now but future picks. It should not be allowed and they will address it, period. No one can be allowed to hoard picks and dominate a draft with this kind of dealing. It is corrupt and disingenuous and should not be allowed. Period. Hey, I’m a fan of this team. We have an unbelievable haul of picks and probably the pick of the best quarterback in the draft that will put our franchise on the map. A tremendous turnaround is possible, and I’m telling you, it should not be allowed to go down like this. It’s a blueprint that should have to be destroyed and not allowed in all fairness of parity. You compete and draft where you draft. You can not be allowed to throw a year for draft picks. Ridiculous to argue against that even if you are the recipient of this idiotic advantage.

This has been done before where teams have had multiple picks in top rounds and it either pans out or it doesn't. It's just our turn this time.

 

[Avigatorx]

They are just pissed because they wont be able to cut to commercial when the Fins are on the clock.

 

[PCmor]

We did nothing wrong. I'm not buying into that BS. Tunsil was a deal you'll see once in a life time. 2 #1,s and 2 #2,s. We just had to take that. How do we keep Fitzpatrick when he insisted he wants out. So we get #1 for him wanting out. We definitely made the right decision, and there jealous. If this was New England. We be a genius

We didn't get two No. 2's for Tunsil. And we gave up our best receiver along with Tunsil. I know a lot of people didn't like Stills, but he still was our best receiver, even if he might not be a No. 1 on most teams.

 

[blitzhappy]

I for one am enjoying this ride , enough of mediocrity! What is it 12 picks in the first three rounds over the next two seasons? Hit on a couple of late rounders and an undrafted free agent or two we could could replace over half of the starters on this team team through the draft alone.

 

[SMadison29]

Fun fact, the last time we had multiple first round picks... 1992, Troy Vincent & Marco Coleman. Only the Steelers have had a longer streak than us.

 

[PCmor]

Look at all the teams trying to win and are 0-2 just like us.

Jets, Panthers, Steelers, Jags, Broncos, Giants & Skins. Only difference between us and them is that they're trying really hard to win and aren't.

Did anyone actually think the Jets, Jags, Broncos, Giants or Redskins would be good? And they've at least made a few plays in their games. We haven't even done that so far.

I'm sorry, but this idea that the rose-colored-glasses crowd is trying to perpetuate just doesn't hold water. The one that people didn't expect us to lose. I expected us to lose and to lose most games by two touchdowns or more.

I also expected to see SOMETHING that gave me a sense there was direction to this tank. I expected to see a young guy getting an opportunity to occasionally do something to encourage me in those one-sided losses. I expected to see a coach educating his players, encouraging them, and occasionally chewing them out. I expected to see players even knowing the difficult situation wanting to be part of the solution. I expected to see us hold onto most of the good young players we already had to help in the turn-around instead to see more holes created. And if you are burning it all down, why are you keeping Grier, why are you extending X who could bring you the most back in trade, and why are you trading a second-round pick to basically kick the tires on a QB who we effectively were bidding against ourselves to acquire?

I'm bothered by seeing players make mistakes I've seldom seen pro players make. That's not a question of ability. It's a question of aptitude, desire, and discipline. I'm bothered that we commit nine penalties in the first game and have 13 through two weeks.

Someone posted a thread a few months ago asking what we would consider a successful season. IIRC, my response was a team that improves on the field each game, that always plays hard, and that doesn't make mental mistakes. That's not really a lot for which to ask. It has nothing to do with wins. But I wasn't expecting losses of historic proportions and performances in which you almost could count the plays and the one-on-one battles we win on two hands.

Someone said if we hit on those three first-round picks, those are three new starters. OK, counting X, we only have to find 18 more starters. And we still don't have a clue if Flores can coach or if Grier can draft and get free agents to want to come here.

But let's stop conflating this fiction that it's just about the losing. I am fine with the losing. I am not fine with the manner in which we are performing in those losses, and I am concerned with the stuff I read, hear, and see around this organization, because it's creating doubts that there's anything more to this tank plan beyond just getting a lot of high draft picks and hoping talent overrides everything else.

 

[Dolphin North]

Minkah didn’t want to be here, not much you can do as an organization if he is persistent in wanting to leave. Tunsil getting two 1sts and a 2nd is hard to pass up..

I agree. But I also agree there is a limit and we are getting near it. At some point you will have to resign all of those first rounders if they pan out and that can become stressful on your cap. Of course if they don't pan out we're screwed anyway. Also, teams will know we want to deal at least a pick in the first round and might be less apt to give the best value knowing that. Just something I have wondered about I guess. Let's just hope a couple of teams absolutely love a player and want to be aggressive in moving up to get him.

But the Tunsil trade was a good deal IMO and we had to do the Minkah deal because he probably would have pouted all year as this apparently went much of the summer. Happy to pull out a first there and hopefully break even at least, depending on how the Steelers do the rest of the season.
We seriously need to hit on many picks or the cycle will just repeat itself anyway. Here's hoping!

 

[Digital]

This criticism is internally inconsistent.

1. They pre-suppose that the same people trading the picks today are failing … yet the fact that we're getting good value for the players we are trading suggests that those picks were good.
For instance, we drafted Tunsil with the #13 pick I believe … and 3+ years later, we're in position to recoup a pick roughly estimated to be the #20 pick, plus let's call it the #17 pick in 2021, and call it the #50 (2nd rounder). We did all this after having the #13 pick for multiple years of his rookie salary. From the outside looking in, the 2020 #1 pick would be fair value for the #13 overall pick from a few years ago. Getting a second #1 in 2021 proves that we made a good choice of prospects with our original #13 pick … a very good choice. That suggest value in the picking of players as valued by the market value the league was willing to pay. Even if we assume the second rounder (approximately #50) was for Stills, that's a huge upgrade over what we paid to obtain Stills (a 6th rounder maybe?). Plus, we had him for some of his rookie salary years and most of his prime years, and still flipped him for a huge profit.

Then let's look at Minkah, who was the #11 pick one year ago. We're trading him for essentially a Pittsburgh pick that is likely to be around the same spot in the draft, with projections that it could easily be a top 15, top 10, or even top 5 pick since they traded for Minkah after losing their QB for the season (Rothleisberger, Bell, AB … not the same offensive juggernaut they used to be), on what looks to be a down year for the 0-2 Steelers. If we get the #11 pick in 2020 for the player we selected #11 in 2019, that's huge value, because like new cars, everything loses value once you drive it off the lot. The players we've traded have returned very good value, which means the NFL values the drafting of those players higher than their selected positions, meaning the NFL thinks highly of the players we picked in those spots.

2. They pre-suppose that by delaying our desire for instant gratification, we are somehow worse off in the future than we would be if we chose instant gratification today, and all analysis suggests otherwise.
Every trade valuation is skewed towards the present. In economic terms, everything is discounted to Net Present Value (NPV), so the #11 pick today is worth more than the #11 pick tomorrow, because we prefer instant gratification. So, by trading the #11 pick today for the #10 pick tomorrow, we've improved our draft position by delaying our gratification until next year (assuming similarly talented draft pools). It's just basic logic and basic economics. So, we're increasing value by delaying gratification. We're able to build a better team tomorrow by delaying gratification today. Much like working out incurs pain today for gain tomorrow, trading for draft picks in the future is a net gain. It's also exactly what the Patriots do almost every draft, and the mainstream media--and this board--calls them geniuses for doing. We're just doing that same thing on a massive scale.

This criticism is flawed. Points 1 and 2 clearly are poorly analyzed by the authors of that article, because they aren't looking at the facts. Closer analysis shows that we are getting GOOD VALUE for our assets, and we've gained BETTER ASSETS for the future. The idea that the people who are clearing the roster are bad, isn't supported by the prices the league is willing to pay. What trades were bad? The Kiko Alonso trade? Not when you consider contract size, which is entirely different from picking draft picks.

At the end of the day, the real metrics are looking at how the best dynasties of the NFL were made … almost all of them had a period of 2-3 years of superior drafting. We can't assure that our picks are all HoF caliber choices, but by gaining so many more picks and getting them so high in the draft, we improve our odds of that kind of talent stockpiling dramatically.

Yes, this season is painful, humiliating, and causes us to lash out. But, we really are trying something new, and it really does look to dramatically improve the overall talent on this roster by 2021. I'm not trying to change anyone's minds on whether we should tank or not. But, I am trying to pain the realistic picture that we've never had a Hershel Walker trade type war chest of chances to add talent, and we're likely to have as good of a chance to add an elite QB as we've had since we chose Ronnie Brown over Aaron Rodgers in the 2005 draft, about a decade and a half ago. We haven't had any sustained success in that decade and a half. Brown was a good player and a great person, but we clearly made the wrong choice. In 2020, we'll have another bite at the apple. Hold the faith until then, that's all I'm asking.

 

[Donaghy13]

I'm trying to optimistic about this approach....So in addition to the plethora of draft picks the Dolphins will also probably have the most cap space of any team in NFL. This should allow them to land a couple top quality FA, maybe younger guys coming off their first contracts to cement something for 2021.

Don't like it personally, but understand what's trying to be done. As others have said, we needed to try something new.

 

[dolfan91]

Lol I don't watch that trash anymore, but I figured that's what it would be. The onslaught from the national media and fans across the country will be the special type reserved for Miami teams.

Bring it. We're used to being sports villains down here.

It's this bad now. Imagine the fever pitch when draft day arrives. Dolphins will be the #1 story. People shaking their collective fists at the Dolphins for "ruining the integrity of the league."

What bothers me the most is, where were all these critics when Dallas traded Hershel Walker for a bounty of picks, that were used to rebuild. Where were all these critics when other teams like New England, Cleveland and others started stock piling picks year after year. How about now, when half the league is sitting on huge amounts of cap space. To me all their trying to do is fit the narrative for their agenda. The fear of Miami's success is telling. That should say something. As for ESPN I've stopped watching it, since the NFLN began. I watch only for the actual games televised.

 

[doogle0868]

stfu Vontae

Go call your grandma.

Or retire in the middle of a game. Great character.