OFFENSIVE LINE IS OUR #1 WEAKNESS | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

OFFENSIVE LINE IS OUR #1 WEAKNESS

My preferred way to discuss the OL during the offseason is to discuss the percentage chance for each ranking range.
  • Top 10 unit — 5%
  • Top 15 unit — 30%
  • 16-25 — 55%
  • 26 or below — 10%
I think the unit will be better, but I doubt it will be a top unit. One reason is that I have doubts about Kindley. He is aggressive, but his frequent poor technique is the reason he was rated so poorly by PFF. I have doubts about our center, so I just do not see how they improve significantly. Hopefully, I am wrong.

Don't want to come across as obsessed with semantics, but I think part of the problem in all valuation threads is with the nuance of "doubts" and 'confidence.' You have "doubts" about Kindley." I think he'll make a good OLman, but I'm not 'confident.' IMO, those are very close. "Doubts" sounds pessimistic" - "not confident" sounds more optimistic, but the nuance is minimal. I think Skua will play well, but I'm "not confident."
To me, the biggest hurdle is the inexperience
 
Douglie's a solid dude.

My guess would be that if he talks about patches, Patchvibes might sponsor him.
I would recommend anyone who likes fan pocasts to check out this young man.

 
I saw a video a guy made yesterday, basically pointing out half a dozen reasons why Austin Jackson sucks as a LT.

Its got me kinda worried.

Oline has to be better or forget playoffs.
 
The season hasn't even started yet so nothing is a weakness at this point. We'll know once the season starts but right now is all paper stuff.
I was about to say exactly this. We have a lot of young talent that should step up this year. Our line is looking much better than last year, imo.
 
I saw a video a guy made yesterday, basically pointing out half a dozen reasons why Austin Jackson sucks as a LT.

Its got me kinda worried.

Oline has to be better or forget playoffs.
Austin Jackson was a rookie last year playing next to another rookie with a rookie qb, a 7th round rb, and some bottom barrel wrs most of the year (with no offseason activities or preseason). Let's give everyone some time to develop!!
 
I saw a video a guy made yesterday, basically pointing out half a dozen reasons why Austin Jackson sucks as a LT.

Its got me kinda worried.

Oline has to be better or forget playoffs.
The problem that I have with these videos is they are the reverse of trying to analyze a prospect with their highlight videos.
The analyst tries to say that this one play means that this player is like this on the other 50 plays in today's game.
If a flaw shows up on one play during a game... or even a couple... it doesn't imply that it happens a lot, or even that the problem isn't correctable by good coaching... especially when the player is 21 years old.
 
Unfortunately when they drafted Jackson and Iggy in the first round in 2020, it was stated at the time that both of them were young players who needed further development before they could reach their potential.

These type players are usually drafted in the middle rounds of the draft with the hope they will eventually develop as NFL players. The Dolphins for some reason decided to draft two developmental players in round one in 2020. Hopefully these two players do end up being solid starters in the NFL or we will be looking back in a few years and realize Grier wasted much of the 2020. draft

There is literally 0 chance a player like Jackson lasts until the middle rounds.

Teams overdraft every position based on their perceived floors and especially ceilings.

The ceiling for Jackson is incredibly high. The floor isn't that low either as long as hes healthy. If it takes him a year or two to hit that potential so be it if it means we have a ten year starter at LT.
 
Which better OL did we pass up for Austin Jackson?

that second rounder your dissing on, “that will need years to develop” was rated pretty decent, towards the end of the year especially…. And for a rookie…

4th rounder…. Not expected to come in and be a starter, and well yes he has things to work on, but what guards have we drafted better in the last 10-15 years?
While I agree Jackson appears to have been the best remaining OT on the board when they made their pick. The problem is they drafted to fill a need with a player who was said at the time would need time to develop. By drafting for need, they bypassed a number of more talented players at other positions of need.

I certainly understand that they were looking to upgrade the OL in the 2020 draft and hopefully Jackson will turn into a solid tackle in the NFL. Yet they left Jefferson on the board at the WR position and Jackson at the RB position. It should also be noted that the Patriots drafted Michael Onwenu in the 6th round and he ended the 2020 season rated much higher at tackle than Jackson. Even though he played very little tackle in college.
 
I HATE... HATE the argument that a first round pick has to play right away. In my ever so humble opinion, this is one of the WORST sayings in football.

Every NFL scout/coach/professional will tell you that some positions take longer. Indeed, a 20 year old prospect at a tough position can't be judged against a 22 year old rookie RB.

They are NOT the same.
 
Very reasonable approach and I understand though don't necessarily agree with it.
I'm high on our young OL too just not necessarily thinking that there time is better being now for the team. I mean look you got Hunt as one of experience veteran, what, going on year 2......not even got to year 2 yet.

We have the finances and more important the Need. Ya, we want it now ! But lets not forget we've been waiting around and have been dealing with stupidity for over 20 YEARS especially with the OL...

Tired too of all the rediculous pressure put on Tua. We're so lucking we got him...

So basically you are going to claim the OL is a mess when significant draft capital has been spent and the players taken have shown VAST potential to be the OL that this team has not had in a very long time. Each of the lineman selected meet or surpass the metrics for NFL lineman.

JACKSON: Exceeds every metric for a LT and was the youngest player last year I believe in league.
KINDLEY: A huge and powerful man who showed awareness and intelligence beyond his years
SKURA: Is a question, healthy? Otherwise exceeds metrics
HUNT: Another HUGE and powerful man who easily projects as an ALL-PRO at the position.
EICHMAN: Ideal ORT if you have a LEFT handed QB, tough, strong and agile enough with a solid understanding of blocking (ZERO sacks in YEARS while at Notre Dame)

2 players who fit nicely as 6th and 7th men for depth.

All the while thinking we are lucky to have TUA who is below metrics in just about every way for the position.

Your logic escapes me as does your desire for solution. Perhaps we should trade for a couple of older ALL-PRO's with bloated contracts would that help calm your tempest?
 
Guess somebody watched Reason from Phinside rant about this...
 
The OL is where it needs to be, talent wise, for now. You couldn’t ask for a better situation with 3 second year starters and a talented and experienced rookie RT.

Austin Jackson is 21 for another month and a half. 19 months YOUNGER than Liam Eichenberg. Let that one sink in.

On a related side note, Noah Igbinoghene will still be 21, 11 games into his second season.

These kids will be 28 years olds at the end of a potential 5 year contract extension is signed.

Back the OL. Matt Skura is in the same boat as Ted Karras except he possesses more talent. More reason to believe the overall impact of the OL will be a positive this year and yet another undeniable strength in the future.

Also consider this, Miami has 3 first round picks over the next two drafts. 1 of those 3 picks will likely be another OL.

I’m the opposite of worried right now about the OL. Or really any part of the team, outside of punter.
 
I grow weary of these black and white debates. Jackson played poorly, Skura stunk last year, Kindley has slow feet, blah blah.
Conversely, Jackson was young and injured. He WILL be better. Skura WILL play like his pre-injury self.
Personally, I think the entire OL SHOULD be better. Should, but no guarantee. There are concerns across the OL, one of them being lack of experience. I don't know if any of them will be top 5 at their positions. I'd love 2-3 of them to be, but if Flo can get 5 average OLmen, the O will be MUCH better. I expect at least one to disappoint. That's the law of averages. I just hope "disappoint" means average.
Well there are definitely no guarantees of anything. I'm _hoping_ that Skura will get back to his pre-injury form. I'm just not too confident of that. I would have expected him to trend up last year not down towards the middle/end of the season. The jury is definitely out on that one.

When you think about Jackson's age, he should be a rookie this year, and we should be looking for flashes ... but he's already shown exceptional flashes, so I feel confident that he'll grow into a good solid LT. Really couldn't have expected any more than he gave last year. I'm quite pleased.

IMHO, Liam Eichenberg is a guy who divides opinions. Some rated him a borderline 1st round talent with projections in the 20's. Others had him rated as a 3rd round pick. it all depends upon how much weight you put in technique (his is impeccable) vs. how much weight you put into athletic profile (where he is good but not elite). He is big ... but not the guy with eye-popping length. He's quick, but not the uber-athlete like Laremy Tunsil. He seems to have average strength, but his technique dominates against power consistently. Some see that as a guy with good but not great size and quickness, and average power. Others see that as a guy who is in the target range of good size and quickness with great technique. He has proven dominant against elite speed and power, having played a ton of games at Notre Dame against future NFL players. He controlled every battle and won every face-off. He wasn't just consistently good, he was almost undefeated level good. If you were looking for production against good opposition ... this guy is the poster child.

When you look at productivity in the NFL, there are 3 types of OL. There are the elite guys, the inconsistent guys, and the journeymen. Most high draft picks have tremendous athletic ability, which usually includes 300+ pounds of muscle, long arms, and exceptional lateral agility. They're quick, long, and being drafted for their potential. Some guys are also good technicians, but it is rare to find an athlete like that with great technical ability. Those guys are top 10 LT's usually. The guys who haven't mastered the technique fall into the inconsistent category. Lots of guys are in that category, and every team has at least 2 of them on its roster. They'd be All-Pro if they had great technique and consistent play ... but they lack one or both. Sometimes teams waste years waiting for those guys to become good technicians, like we did with Dallas Thomas and a bevy of other subpar OL over the years. The difference between a guy who is top 10 at his position along the OL vs. someone who is 30th at his position is almost always consistency. While the dream is that we can take a super-athlete and teach him the technique, the reality is that these same techniques have been taught to him for the last decade by a bunch of different coaches ... and they still haven't mastered it. Most never will, despite the draft dream otherwise. Precious few guys actually become good technicians in the NFL. Either they got it and applied it earlier ... or they'll always be inconsistent. Liam Eichenberg is consistent, and has excellent technique.

In the NFL, the OL wins most of the battles. In fact it's not uncommon for a poorly producing OL to win 75% of his battles 1v1. But if he allows 1 sack and 2 pressures per game, that's 34 pressures and 17 sacks each year, and he's suddenly the worst OL in the NFL. People don't realize the excellence and consistency demanded of OL. So someone like Eichenberg who masters the technique, has good size and athletic ability, and is healthy represents a real gem. If he turns out to be good enough, then he'll be excellent, and playing at a Pro Bowl level or above every year. He may get beaten, but he is not likely to make many mistakes. That type guy is the cornerstone of an OL.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom