OFFENSIVE LINE IS OUR #1 WEAKNESS

[KTOWNFINFAN]

Austin Jackson was a reach/ project, that kid needs to show he can play at a high level .

I totally agree but doubt we ever see it. I said it the night we drafted him that it was a mistake. He played ok for the first few games before teams got to watch his college tape, but as soon as they found his weakness they knew they could take advantage any time they wanted. Make a new rule that an edge MUST rush outside around the edge and Austin will be fine but any time they want to cross his face he is toast. He was in college and is at the next level, nothing but toast when they cross his face. Not sure he can fix it, he just can't process what is happening fast enough. From the time he sees them changing direction, processes that, then tries to change his body position to engage and cut them off, they are already by him. He has the body for it but for whatever reason his mind is not processing the intel fast enough, I have seen it time and time again and not just in him but others. And I have never seen it fixed.

I personally have a condition known as CMT, and it has both mental and physical issues that get worse with age. The synapse in the brain are slowed and do not carry information back an forth as quick as it is does in normal people. At 53 it has become nearly unbearable for me, but at his age it was just starting to show signs in me. Now I am not saying he has CMT only that there is something there that is slowing his processing speed. It is easy to develop muscle memory to handle the same thing over and over but when something changes in real time it takes longer to process the change and react to it. IMO Austin will never fix this and it will get worse as he gets older. He will never be a player who can handle the inside rush and will never be able to quickly handle the mental part of passing players off on stunts and twist. It will help to have a very verbal OG beside him that can yell out twist and stunts to give him a split second longer to process things but i am not sure that will be enough to make him a good player. Just my opinion.

 

[fansinceGWilson]

I agree with the need for an excellent OL

I feel your post went "slightly" overboard by calling it our number one weakness in 2021. We do not know how good or bad this OL will be, yet!

We have been giving the OL real improvement via the last two drafts and Free Agency. Last year without a preseason and our having a bunch of FA and rookie OL players and 2 QB's limited their development process.

This year we have again added players to the OL and this year we will have a preseason, along with what was learned last year in a 10-7 season. I'm proud to say I was one of the few fans who predicted last seasons W_L record correctly.

I feel the better question to ask is how good will our OL be this year?

I expect it will be good, in that the running game will improve, largely because of the new OL play. I also anticipate that the passing game will be dazzling due to our receivers speed, and to an extent, the OL play. Tua being in his second year should also support improved overall offensive play.

My expectations of improved offensive play, largely due to our new and improved OL, should also allow our defense to play better by simply not being on the field as long.

We are going to be tough to beat this year.

Agree. Last year the OL was inexperienced and young, but also, no speed/quickness threat at receiver, so teams could stack the box and worry little. This year, with speed and quickness, I'd love to se the D stack the box. Plus, I think the OL will be nastier this year. That said, it will still be young and lack of experience together.

 

[ChitownPhins28]

It seemed like we had many threads last year when we were Praising Austin Jackson as being 'ahead of schedule' and Kindley as being "a steal" and Hunt playing well as a tackle but 'he'll be Awesome at guard', etc.
But, we had some injuries and faced some top-notch D Coordinators (well, Fangio is a head coach, but we know how that happened) who took advantage of inexperience and injuries that reduced effectiveness.
Suddenly, our promising young OLine was 'hopeless trash' again.
Bullshit.

Jackson has probably gotten stronger, more trained, more experienced, and if he was 'ahead of the curve' last year (before being slowed by injury) then he should kick butt in '21.
Kindley will get better just from training and experience.
Now Hunt is a Guard so he gets to feature that power with less focus on lateral quickness.
We got a 'technician' at RT who faced elite competition in college and seldom got beat (like, next-to-never).
With Fluker and Davis, we've got great depth.
Center is a wildcard. Id hate to think Grier and Flores could be so wrong about Skura/Dieter as to ignore the position in the draft.
If Skura is at 2019 level of health, I doubt the 'yips' thing will affect him as much. Having a vulnerability, as he did last year, was probably distracting and it's probably like having hiccups. It starts and 'good luck' stopping it until it's ready to stop.
Add to this some some physically gifted 'long shots' we grabbed as UFDAs, where one of them is likely to pan out to being no worse than solid depth.

I totally disagree with OP's premise.

 

[cuzinvinny]

I agree with the need for an excellent OL

I feel your post went "slightly" overboard by calling it our number one weakness in 2021. We do not know how good or bad this OL will be, yet!

We have been giving the OL real improvement via the last two drafts and Free Agency. Last year without a preseason and our having a bunch of FA and rookie OL players and 2 QB's limited their development process.

This year we have again added players to the OL and this year we will have a preseason, along with what was learned last year in a 10-7 season. I'm proud to say I was one of the few fans who predicted last seasons W_L record correctly.

I feel the better question to ask is how good will our OL be this year?

" feel your post went "slightly" overboard by calling it our number one weakness in 2021. We do not know how good or bad this OL will be, yet! "

Yet you say " I expect it will be good, in that the running game will improve, largely because of the new OL play. I also anticipate that the passing game will be dazzling due to our receivers speed, and to an extent OL play." So sayin this from saying we don't know doesn't make sense.

A lot of pre judgement depending on the OL play. But why no explanation of why this OL will be improved ENOUGH. What support or actual facts have you to present besides I expect ? Do you have any concrete reasoning for backing that statement. Did you see some level of consistency or insight as to how you know they are going to improve substantial enough to be NFL above average... Love to hear it haven't so far from anyone just hopes. Love to feel secure about the whole OL because then we'd be a terrifing force for the league to reckon with.

Man ! the future of this season may just be resting on that OL significant leap on a consistent basis to have that successful RB and ability to take advantage of our rocket speading the field Wr's. And as far as the whole team that scares me the most....

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

IMO the best OL is left to right: Eichenberg, Kindley, ??, Hunt, Fluker. That;s right Fluker. I have went back and watched Fluker in the A22 and he played much better than I was expecting. He is our best RT and that will allow us to play Eichenberg at his normal position. The center position has me terrified. We don't have a starter on the team. Skura was who I was watching on the A22 when I saw Fluker. Skura is not even as good as Karass and Karass was comically bad at times last year. I think our best option at center might be Cameron Tom, or someone not on the team.

We need to come to grips with the fact that Austin will never be a solid starter. Backup for short stints at best. If teams prepare for him he will be a turn stile. He was a bad pick and we need to prepare to move on. Let Eichenberg play LT where he didn't give up a sack vs very good college competition and let Fluker man the RT. Our OGs will be fine, and our OC will be a nightmare until we bring in some talent. Tua is not as fast as Jackson was last year to get away from Skura's mistakes. Tua will will have a DT in his lap every snap with Skura snapping the ball, well unless it's raining then Skura will be snapping the ball heaven knows where, but certainly no where near Tua.

I agree with the OP we have some real concerns up front. Especially at OC. Maybe Deiter takes a huge jump. Maybe they can move Robert Jones to OC and he can help, or maybe Cameron Tom can be the man, but Skura is gonna get Tua killed.

 

[Etuoo33]

Something that I haven't seen mentioned is the fact that our coaching staff seems to thrive on teaching and developing players as opposed to plugging players and hoping they work out, like some of the previous staff's SEEMED to do. I know in the past they were coached to do their jobs, but this staff just seeems to be better at teaching the positions better and developing the necessary skills the players need to be successful. They drafted the players they wanted, for the spots they wanted them at and although they had to play some out of the optimum position, they seem to have the plan. I feel better for the first time in quite a while about the potential of this line, especially at Guard that has been a revolving door for more that a decade. My 2 cents...

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

It seemed like we had many threads last year when we were Praising Austin Jackson as being 'ahead of schedule' and Kindley as being "a steal" and Hunt playing well as a tackle but 'he'll be Awesome at guard', etc.
But, we had some injuries and faced some top-notch D Coordinators (well, Fangio is a head coach, but we know how that happened) who took advantage of inexperience and injuries that reduced effectiveness.
Suddenly, our promising young OLine was 'hopeless trash' again.
Bullshit.

Jackson has probably gotten stronger, more trained, more experienced, and if he was 'ahead of the curve' last year (before being slowed by injury) then he should kick butt in '21.
Kindley will get better just from training and experience.
Now Hunt is a Guard so he gets to feature that power with less focus on lateral quickness.
We got a 'technician' at RT who faced elite competition in college and seldom got beat (like, next-to-never).
With Fluker and Davis, we've got great depth.
Center is a wildcard. Id hate to think Grier and Flores could be so wrong about Skura/Dieter as to ignore the position in the draft.
If Skura is at 2019 level of health, I doubt the 'yips' thing will affect him as much. Having a vulnerability, as he did last year, was probably distracting and it's probably like having hiccups. It starts and 'good luck' stopping it until it's ready to stop.
Add to this some some physically gifted 'long shots' we grabbed as UFDAs, where one of them is likely to pan out to being no worse than solid depth.

I totally disagree with OP's premise.

OK I respect your opinion. But the OP's take was the OL was the weakest unit on the team. You say you disagree, so what unit to you find weaker?? Of the 5 positions on the OL we have only LG with Kindley as solidified, and even that could be argued. RG with Hunt seems to be in good shape and I am optimistic that he can handle it, but we don't know because he hasn't done it before. We have a rookie at RT and LT and center is a mess at best. what position group is worse ? RB maybe?? I don't see it.

 

[Etuoo33]

Miami keeps spending 1st round picks on o-linemen, but it's a waste because the line doesn't improve with them. The last drafted OL who was physically dominating was Jake Long. How is it that Philbin had 1st round picks on his o-line, yet Tannehill was sacked more than any other QB during his first 4 years? How is it that Gase had 1st round picks on his o-line, yet they were probably the worst in the league at converting 3rd or 4th and short on the ground? I wouldn't be surprised if Gase's o-line also gave up the most tackles for losses. Pouncey, James, Tunsil; they did nothing to help the o-line. Tunsil's only value was the picks they got by trading him.

I keep saying this over and over... Miami needs to find new people to recognize and evaluate o-line talent. And, IMO, they need to go old-school on the o-line. They need guys like (a healthy) Jake Long and Incognito, not JAGs like James, or busts like Jonathan Martin and Dallas Thomas. Incognito went to the Pro Bowl with Buffalo after leaving Miami, and not one o-lineman drafted since then has been worthy of carrying his jockstrap... including the so-called "elite" Tunsil! It seems like other teams can build decent o-lines with guys from the 2nd through 5th rounds, yet Miami uses multiple 1st round picks and still has one of the worst lines in the league. There's a problem in the Front Office, and continuing to waste 1st round picks on OL isn't going to fix it.

In the PAST they didn't have Reggie McKenzie and Brian Flores helping with the draft decisions.

 

[Mach2]

IMO the best OL is left to right: Eichenberg, Kindley, ??, Hunt, Fluker. That;s right Fluker. I have went back and watched Fluker in the A22 and he played much better than I was expecting. He is our best RT and that will allow us to play Eichenberg at his normal position. The center position has me terrified. We don't have a starter on the team. Skura was who I was watching on the A22 when I saw Fluker. Skura is not even as good as Karass and Karass was comically bad at times last year. I think our best option at center might be Cameron Tom, or someone not on the team.

We need to come to grips with the fact that Austin will never be a solid starter. Backup for short stints at best. If teams prepare for him he will be a turn stile. He was a bad pick and we need to prepare to move on. Let Eichenberg play LT where he didn't give up a sack vs very good college competition and let Fluker man the RT. Our OGs will be fine, and our OC will be a nightmare until we bring in some talent. Tua is not as fast as Jackson was last year to get away from Skura's mistakes. Tua will will have a DT in his lap every snap with Skura snapping the ball, well unless it's raining then Skura will be snapping the ball heaven knows where, but certainly no where near Tua.

I agree with the OP we have some real concerns up front. Especially at OC. Maybe Deiter takes a huge jump. Maybe they can move Robert Jones to OC and he can help, or maybe Cameron Tom can be the man, but Skura is gonna get Tua killed.

You need to come to grips with the fact that AJ is not the steaming pile of manure you are purporting.

Will he ever be a dominant All Pro caliber RT? I have no idea, and given his age, the likelyhood that his techique will improve considerably, and his strength will no doubt improve, neither do you.

It's fine if you don't like the pick, but you are going overboard about an underaged rook, with no proper offseason program, that was almost universally considered a rd1 pick, that needed a year to develop, to the point of absurdity.

Thank you in advance for your prompt attention to this mental manifestation.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

" feel your post went "slightly" overboard by calling it our number one weakness in 2021. We do not know how good or bad this OL will be, yet! "

Yet you say " I expect it will be good, in that the running game will improve, largely because of the new OL play. I also anticipate that the passing game will be dazzling due to our receivers speed, and to an extent OL play." So sayin this from saying we don't know doesn't make sense.

A lot of pre judgement depending on the OL play. But why no explanation of why this OL will be improved ENOUGH. What support or actual facts have you to present besides I expect ? Do you have any concrete reasoning for backing that statement. Did you see some level of consistency or insight as to how you know they are going to improve substantial enough to be NFL above average... Love to hear it haven't so far from anyone just hopes. Love to feel secure about the whole OL because then we'd be a terrifing force for the league to reckon with.

Man ! the future of this season may just be resting on that OL significant leap on a consistent basis to have that successful RB and ability to take advantage of our rocket speading the field Wr's. And as far as the whole team that scares me the most....

Agree with everything except I think Fluker is better than you think. He can be a starter in this league and above average in Run and Pass pro. He NEVER gets beat off the snap like Austin, he at least slows them down and is very strong at the POA. He has gotten a lot better since the last time I studied him in his first few years. He has obviously gotten better. Go watch the A22 on him, I think you will feel better with him as a starter which then gives us two LTs which means Austin doesn't HAVE to be a starter. Then with the two OGs being serviceable we will just have to find a center.

 

[KTOWNFINFAN]

You need to come to grips with the fact that AJ is not the steaming pile of manure you are purporting.

Will he ever be a dominant All Pro caliber RT? I have no idea, and given his age, the likelyhood that his techique will improve considerably, and his strength will no doubt improve, neither do you.

It's fine if you don't like the pick, but you are going overboard about an underaged rook, with no proper offseason program, that was almost universally considered a rd1 pick, that needed a year to develop, to the point of absurdity.

Thank you in advance for your prompt attention to this mental manifestation.

I agree he is young and is certainly strong quick and has the athletic ability to play the position and play it well. On that we certainly agree. My problem is the same as it was the night we drafted him. He can't defend the crossover. He couldn't at USC and he proved to have the same problem in the NFL and it looks to have gotten even worse. He also can't convert pass offs on Twist and Stunts. Both of these are due to mental processing issues and I don't see how that is going to get better. He is certainly strong enough, and agile enough, but he has mental issues, not that he isn't smart enough, he may be a Rhodes Scholar, but he doesn't process things quick enough for the position, and again this is just my opinion but I think you will see it get worse not better. And so far from the college game to the pros you have seen just that.

 

[BlueFin]

I think the O-line will be much better this year and far from our weakest link. I'm actually a bit more worry about our defense. Can't count on turnovers every week

I actually feel like they did a pretty good job of tightening everything up on defense, adding the drafts best pass rusher and a ball hawking safety…I expect this team to produce turnover.

Offensively I think the line is in a good place…it boils down to this new scheme!

 

[rafael]

You need to come to grips with the fact that AJ is not the steaming pile of manure you are purporting.

Will he ever be a dominant All Pro caliber RT? I have no idea, and given his age, the likelyhood that his techique will improve considerably, and his strength will no doubt improve, neither do you.

It's fine if you don't like the pick, but you are going overboard about an underaged rook, with no proper offseason program, that was almost universally considered a rd1 pick, that needed a year to develop, to the point of absurdity.

Thank you in advance for your prompt attention to this mental manifestation.

I had five Ts rated as first round talents in that draft. Jackson was my 5th guy. I saw him as a gamble b/c he was coming off a medical procedure and had no off-season going into that college year. It was a procedure that would rob him of his strength so I felt that anyone grading him on his tape that year was not looking at a realistic picture. But I also thought it was obvious that he had really good feet. And even though I had him as my 5th rated T, I also said that it wouldn't surprise me if five years from now he ended up as the best T in the class. Basically, I had him as a "tools" guy. LTs with his athleticism always go in the 1st round, so I disagree with anyone saying he wasn't a 1st round talent. But he was also a project player who would need time to develop. And that's always a risk b/c not every player develops. That risk is why I had him as my fifth guy. But once he was picked then it requires patience. You either trust the coaches to develop him (or replace him if he doesn't show what it takes) or you don't. IMO these coaches have shown plenty to earn my trust that they'll do exactly that.

 

[Russ57]

If Jackson can't develop into a starting LT then Eichenberg can play there. Hunt, Fluker, and Davis have all proven they can play RT to some degree. If Jackson is our LT going forward Eichenberg can play RT.

That allows Hunt to kick inside where many project him as having possible pro bowl level play. In many ways I think it might be better to have Hunt at LG and Kindley at RG. I want my LG to have better lateral ability and be able to pull and get to second level. I want my RG to have power and win one on one against any DT. On the other hand I hate moving guys around each year.

Our center is an unknow but he has played at a high level in the past. Center is an important place to have an experienced guy at too.

In upcoming drafts I think they will add a center, and perhaps an OG depending on how Kindley does.

I feel pretty good about our OT depth. That is nice as you can generally find OG's later in the draft and/or cheaper on the FA market.

 

[circumstances]

Both of these are due to mental processing issues and I don't see how that is going to get better.

It's called "practice" and "experience."

It's possible he has an incurable processing problem, but I will wait and see on that.