Official Red Sox '05 thread

[FIN-IN-RI]

I wish we still had D-Lowe. One of my favorite players. Lowe > Clement. He own all three clinching games... I think that's worth more then a guy who's never reached his full potential. To be honest, I'm not sure what the **** Theo was doing. Ripping apart a WS rotation isn't exactly the way to repeat.

Wakefield off to a very nice start. Hopefully he keeps it up.

:yes: on all counts. I wish we still had Cabrerra too. SS is a postion we didn't need upgrading! Especially with Hanley in the Minors! :2c:

 

[Gator Mike]

I wish we still had D-Lowe. One of my favorite players. Lowe > Clement. He own all three clinching games... I think that's worth more then a guy who's never reached his full potential.

Record (2004)
Lowe: 14-12
Clement: 9-13

Innings (2004)
Lowe: 182.2
Clement: 181.0

Hits (2004)
Lowe: 224
Clement: 155

Walks (2004)
Lowe: 71
Clement: 77

Strikeouts (2004)
Lowe: 105
Clement: 190

Strikeouts/9 Innings (2004)
Lowe: 5.17
Clement: 9.44

Strikeout to Walk Ratio (2004)
Lowe: 1.47
Clement: 2.46

WHIP (2004)
Lowe: 1.61
Clement: 1.28

ERA (2004)
Lowe: 5.42
Clement: 3.68

Clement had an ERA almost two full runs lower than Lowe. He's a better pitcher... period.

To be honest, I'm not sure what the **** Theo was doing. Ripping apart a WS rotation isn't exactly the way to repeat.

If you're not moving forward, you're falling behind.

I think the Red Sox' rotation will be better this year than they were last year. Give it time.

 

[Clark Kent]

Record (2004)
Lowe: 14-12
Clement: 9-13

Innings (2004)
Lowe: 182.2
Clement: 181.0

Hits (2004)
Lowe: 224
Clement: 155

Walks (2004)
Lowe: 71
Clement: 77

Strikeouts (2004)
Lowe: 105
Clement: 190

Strikeouts/9 Innings (2004)
Lowe: 5.17
Clement: 9.44

Strikeout to Walk Ratio (2004)
Lowe: 1.47
Clement: 2.46

WHIP (2004)
Lowe: 1.61
Clement: 1.28

ERA (2004)
Lowe: 5.42
Clement: 3.68

Clement had an ERA almost two full runs lower than Lowe. He's a better pitcher... period.



If you're not moving forward, you're falling behind.

I think the Red Sox' rotation will be better this year than they were last year. Give it time.

D-Lowe had some issues (blisters and **** like that). Not to mention they've had a ****ty defense and he's a ground ball pitcher. Mueller, Bellhorn, Nomar, etc... Look at how much better he pitched when Cab, Doug and Pokey played.

Also, Clement played in the NL. an average pitcher will have better numbers there. It's not so much that you have a pitcher in the order, but the fact you're taking a bat away. For example, Ortiz and Millar. Millar would sit and you're takng his bat away.

Even though you guys don't like Pedro, I do. I wish we had him still. Now that he's throwing 95 again he's a beast. If his breaking ball isn't on, he can gas people (which he didn't do here last year). He's going to win Cy Young with a 2.40 ERA.

 

[FaninPatsyLand]

I have to agree with Gator Mike on this one.

Lowe was awful last year, outside of 3 games. Granted they were the 3 biggest games of the year.

But if you are gonna open up the wallet for that much money, you are going to want a guy that is going to give you more consistent production. Lowe just didn't do it last year. Also the past couple of years Lowe's numbers were on a steady decline, that can't be a pretty sight for a GM debating whether or not to give a guy a long term contract.

Also Hostile, I don't think anyone here said they didn't want Pedro back. The problem most of us saw is the amount of risk involved in giving him a 4 year contract. Hell, I think we all want him back now, but wait till years 3 and 4 of that contract and tell me the same thing. Theo made the right decision when it came to letting both Pedro and Lowe go.

As far as Renteria goes, I don't know what the hell Theo was thinking there. OCab was awesome last year, and he was a huge part of that World Series. I can't fathom why Theo felt we needed to upgrade the SS position.

 

[NJFINSFAN1]

Caaaalllllvvvviiiiinnnn!!!!

 

[Gator Mike]

D-Lowe had some issues (blisters and **** like that).

Then D-Lowe had them the year before, as well... because his 2003 numbers aren't a whole lot better. The guy was great in 2002, barely average in 2003, and maybe the worst regular starter in all of baseball last year. I don't blame the Sox for not resigning him.

Not to mention they've had a ****ty defense and he's a ground ball pitcher. Mueller, Bellhorn, Nomar, etc... Look at how much better he pitched when Cab, Doug and Pokey played.

Derek Lowe had an ERA of 6.52 in September. You were saying?

Also, Clement played in the NL. an average pitcher will have better numbers there. It's not so much that you have a pitcher in the order, but the fact you're taking a bat away. For example, Ortiz and Millar. Millar would sit and you're takng his bat away.

There's NOT two runs per nine innings worth of difference between the AL and the NL.

Even though you guys don't like Pedro, I do. I wish we had him still. Now that he's throwing 95 again he's a beast. If his breaking ball isn't on, he can gas people (which he didn't do here last year). He's going to win Cy Young with a 2.40 ERA.

I love Pedro, and you might very well be right about winning the Cy Young this year.

But he was only a "pretty good" starter last year. 200 innings of 3.90 ERA just isn't that difficult to replace. Matt Clement might give us something close to that.

As far as Renteria goes, I don't know what the hell Theo was thinking there. OCab was awesome last year, and he was a huge part of that World Series. I can't fathom why Theo felt we needed to upgrade the SS position.

Cabrera played fairly well for the Red Sox... and he still gave us more or less what Renteria averaged in what was considered an "off" year for him.

Much like the rotation, give Renteria some time to settle in.

 

[Clark Kent]

I love Pedro, and you might very well be right about winning the Cy Young this year.

But he was only a "pretty good" starter last year. 200 innings of 3.90 ERA just isn't that difficult to replace. Matt Clement might give us something close to that.

Pedro wasn't throwing his best because he didn't have a contract. in the past when he stuggled with his breaking ball early he could gas people. He was throwing 88 last year, so he had problems. there was a report saying Pedro wouldn't throw out his arm before he got a contract, and sure enough he's throwing 94 most fastballs (95 on strike out pitches).

 

[MikeO]

Clement pitched in the NL in more pitcher friendly ball parks and with no DH. I hope his ERA was lower.

 

[FIN-IN-RI]

Clement pitched in the NL in more pitcher friendly ball parks and with no DH. I hope his ERA was lower.

Clement also had more K's but that should be expected since it's Lowe's forte to get ground ball outs, not strike outs. Lowe is someone you could count on in the playoffs.. Clement? I guess we'll find out. I wasn't happy with that move but a few solid wins will make me change my tune!

 

[Clark Kent]

Clement also had more K's but that should be expected since it's Lowe's forte to get ground ball outs, not strike outs. Lowe is someone you could count on in the playoffs.. Clement? I guess we'll find out. I wasn't happy with that move but a few solid wins will make me change my tune!

Clement was a panic signing. Renteria was a mistake, but owell... Hopefully he goes to his 2003 form, although I doubt it. How much did Cab make for the Angels?

It's funny in a way... Although we won the WS and Theo deserves some slack, how stupid was the whole Nomar thing? A guy who hits .325, 30 HR, 100 RBI, steals 15+, etc... His defense was bad in 04 because of injury (yes he was declining, but in 03 he wasn't a liability he was made out to be in 04). Theo wanted A-Rod no less... Every team he's left has gotten 10x better since his departure.

How many disgruntled former players does this team have? Odd how winning changes everything. I've never had a championship team before. Dolphins, and the Celtics havn't won anything since I've been a fan. All new to me.

 

[MikeO]

Clement was a panic signing. Renteria was a mistake, but owell... Hopefully he goes to his 2003 form, although I doubt it. How much did Cab make for the Angels?

It's funny in a way... Although we won the WS and Theo deserves some slack, how stupid was the whole Nomar thing? A guy who hits .325, 30 HR, 100 RBI, steals 15+, etc... His defense was bad in 04 because of injury (yes he was declining, but in 03 he wasn't a liability he was made out to be in 04). Theo wanted A-Rod no less... Every team he's left has gotten 10x better since his departure.

.

Theo is an overrated GM. Theo wanted to trade Manny, sign A-Rod, and the owners went over his head to trade for Schilling. If Theo had total control, "last year" would have never happened for the Sox. That is a fact.

You can now make the case Theo overpaid for Clement and probably should have kept Cabera at SS. We will see how this plays out in the long-run, but Im not sold on Theo being a "boy wonder". What the F' move has he made that has actually worked out? And don't give me Schilling since he had NOTHING to do with that trade. That was done over his head, he had no voice or anything in that deal. Schillling called the shots and got Francona with him in a package deal. That was a trade made by the Boston owners not Theo

 

[FaninPatsyLand]

Theo is an overrated GM. Theo wanted to trade Manny, sign A-Rod, and the owners went over his head to trade for Schilling. If Theo had total control, "last year" would have never happened for the Sox. That is a fact.

You can now make the case Theo overpaid for Clement and probably should have kept Cabera at SS. We will see how this plays out in the long-run, but Im not sold on Theo being a "boy wonder". What the F' move has he made that has actually worked out? And don't give me Schilling since he had NOTHING to do with that trade. That was done over his head, he had no voice or anything in that deal. Schillling called the shots and got Francona with him in a package deal. That was a trade made by the Boston owners not Theo

I agree. He is somewhat overrated. But he's a young guy that went through some growing pains. However, regardless of how many mistakes he was CLOSE to making, as a Red Sox fan, I'm still damn happy to have him. He is only going to get better, he's a smart kid and will learn from his mistakes. On top of that, there aren't too many GMs I would rather have on my team. IMO he is a hell of alot better than guys like Cashman, and that gap is going to only get greater with the more experience he gets.

While we are mentioning GMs, it's a shame that Dan Duquette isn't getting more credit for his work. Remember this is a guy that brought in Pedro, Manny, Damon and orchestrated that unbelievable deal to send Slocumb to the Mariners for Varitek and Lowe. When it comes right down to it, that World Series team was his with some minor tweaking from Theo and the new ownership team. It's a shame his bad reputation will always follow him because of his bonehead comments about Roger Clemens.

 

[FaninPatsyLand]

What the F' move has he made that has actually worked out? And don't give me Schilling since he had NOTHING to do with that trade.

How about trading a Boston icon in Nomar Garciaparra for two under appreciated players in Orlando Cabrerra and Doug Mientkiewicz? I seem to remember that working out pretty well...:shakeno:

 

[Clark Kent]

How about trading a Boston icon in Nomar Garciaparra for two under appreciated players in Orlando Cabrerra and Doug Mientkiewicz? I seem to remember that working out pretty well...:shakeno:

We also had to trade a very good pitching prospect and we kept none of those players...

We should have kept both. Cabrerra is a very good all around SS. I would say if not at the same level as Renteria, better. Doug didn't have a great hitting year, but he's usually a .275 guy and a monster glove... As a matter of fact, we should have never got rid of Nomar... It had to be done after all the **** happened, but we didn't need A-Rod.

While we are mentioning GMs, it's a shame that Dan Duquette isn't getting more credit for his work.

Correct.

Imagine Billy Bean with a 150 million dollar payroll... Best GM in baseball right now. I know the Hudson/Mulder thing sucked, but he couldn't afford them. I'm also willing to bet they get rid of Zito this year... WTF happened to Zito while we're on the topic?

 

[FaninPatsyLand]

We also had to trade a very good pitching prospect and we kept none of those players...


Imagine Billy Bean with a 150 million dollar payroll... Best GM in baseball right now. I know the Hudson/Mulder thing sucked, but he couldn't afford them. I'm also willing to bet they get rid of Zito this year... WTF happened to Zito while we're on the topic?

As far as not keeping those players and trading away a good prospect. Doesn't matter, the ultimate goal was achieved, we won the WS. I don't think many people around New England are going to care if he turns into something. It will be overshadowed by winning the World Series.

As far as Zito. I have NO idea what happened him. The only thing I can think of is that his lack of velocity has finally caught up with him. But his curveball was nasty. It just doesn't make sense, he was awful last year too. Maybe it's just a slump. Beane isn't stupid, theres a method to his madness. He must have seen something in Zito to keep him around and give him an extension.