Quarterbacks In The Draft: Who Are The Candidates? | Page 14 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Quarterbacks In The Draft: Who Are The Candidates?

Murray did not play well against Alabama. That is ridiculous. You can say he has incredibly dangerous feet and will cause immense problems in the NFL. No question about that. He is quicker than Wilson or Mahomes or any of these guys who have entered recently.

But he was scared and unprepared to begin that game. Forcing stupid passes into traffic. Not using his escapability.

I never apply full credit to anything that is done once the outcome has essentially been decided after a huge early deficit. It's like a biathlete shooting 0-5 on the first stage and suffering so many penalty loops he has no chance unless everyone in front of him likewise goes 0-5 at a subsequent shooting stage. Then the flopper comes home in a flash to grab the wooden medal in 4th. Congratulations.

You can start like Murray did if you have the superior defense. Tua could afford that. Alabama would have been eligible to clamp down. For Murray to do that makes the remainder of a game basically sucker central.

I'll listen to anything positive about Murray from other games. Not that one.

That said, Murray has brilliance and the NFL rewards brilliance. It is preferable to own brilliance despite a strange frame and style than to have an ideal frame and style with no threat of brilliance. Virtually all of the other quarterback prospects for this year and next year demonstrated in the bowl games that they simply aren't brilliant.

Justin Herbert is not a top NFL quarterback. He is not tough enough of body or mind. He looks like a 16 year old out there. His top receiver let him down a couple of times, including on Herbert's best throw that should have been a touchdown. Who cares? It equated to 7 points. Murray could take over that same offense and direct more than 7 points with 3 dropped touchdown passes.

Bentley of South Carolina was awful. No points. Pure backup. Likewise the overaged kid at North Carolina State. The bowl games were clarity in terms of rejecting most of the second and third tier pretenders in this quarterback crop.

I could have some interest in the guy from Missouri. First time I've watched him at length in two years. Definitely improved. Strange stats line because his yards per completion fell way off this year despite completion percentage going up considerably. I don't follow their personnel closely enough or coaching closely enough to understand why that happened.

Lock throws too much off his back foot. Even when he's not fully on his back foot he's leaning backward as he throws. Maybe that can be corrected. Needs to get tougher and hang in there. Definitely some skills to work with. Looks the part. Basically a superior version of Justin Herbert. But I can't place him comfortably ahead of Tannehill level and let's be frank that's what we're looking for.

Haskins played as expected. Every time he does something strange he follows with something superb. Only question I would have is translating to NFL style and how long that would take. He can move in the pocket but is not an athlete. That Ohio State offense is tremendous. I have no idea why that isn't the favored design everywhere. Up tempo straight ahead power and all the gorgeous offshoots it allows in the passing game. We have not seen a top rated NFL prospect at quarterback from Meyer's tenure at Ohio State. Every time I am impressed with an accurate Haskins throw I'm thinking there really wasn't any pressure on him to be accurate in the first place, since the receiver was schemed so wide open.

I like Murray better now than I did during the Alabama game. That would be my overall summary. Throw out all the categories other than who is likely to enable his team to score sufficient points.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
Murray did not play well against Alabama. That is ridiculous. You can say he has incredibly dangerous feet and will cause immense problems in the NFL. No question about that. He is quicker than Wilson or Mahomes or any of these guys who have entered recently.

But he was scared and unprepared to begin that game. Forcing stupid passes into traffic. Not using his escapability.

I never apply full credit to anything that is done once the outcome has essentially been decided after a huge early deficit. It's like a biathlete shooting 0-5 on the first stage and suffering so many penalty loops he has no chance unless everyone in front of him likewise goes 0-5 at a subsequent shooting stage. Then the flopper comes home in a flash to grab the wooden medal in 4th. Congratulations.

You can start like Murray did if you have the superior defense. Tua could afford that. Alabama would have been eligible to clamp down. For Murray to do that makes the remainder of a game basically sucker central.

I'll listen to anything positive about Murray from other games. Not that one.

That said, Murray has brilliance and the NFL rewards brilliance. It is preferable to own brilliance despite a strange frame and style than to have an ideal frame and style with no threat of brilliance. Virtually all of the other quarterback prospects for this year and next year demonstrated in the bowl games that they simply aren't brilliant.

Justin Herbert is not a top NFL quarterback. He is not tough enough of body or mind. He looks like a 16 year old out there. His top receiver let him down a couple of times, including on Herbert's best throw that should have been a touchdown. Who cares? It equated to 7 points. Murray could take over that same offense and direct more than 7 points with 3 dropped touchdown passes.

Bentley of South Carolina was awful. No points. Pure backup. Likewise the overaged kid at North Carolina State. The bowl games were clarity in terms of rejecting most of the second and third tier pretenders in this quarterback crop.

I could have some interest in the guy from Missouri. First time I've watched him at length in two years. Definitely improved. Strange stats line because his yards per completion fell way off this year despite completion percentage going up considerably. I don't follow their personnel closely enough or coaching closely enough to understand why that happened.

Lock throws too much off his back foot. Even when he's not fully on his back foot he's leaning backward as he throws. Maybe that can be corrected. Needs to get tougher and hang in there. Definitely some skills to work with. Looks the part. Basically a superior version of Justin Herbert. But I can't place him comfortably ahead of Tannehill level and let's be frank that's what we're looking for.

Haskins played as expected. Every time he does something strange he follows with something superb. Only question I would have is translating to NFL style and how long that would take. He can move in the pocket but is not an athlete. That Ohio State offense is tremendous. I have no idea why that isn't the favored design everywhere. Up tempo straight ahead power and all the gorgeous offshoots it allows in the passing game. We have not seen a top rated NFL prospect at quarterback from Meyer's tenure at Ohio State. Every time I am impressed with an accurate Haskins throw I'm thinking there really wasn't any pressure on him to be accurate in the first place, since the receiver was schemed so wide open.

I like Murray better now than I did during the Alabama game. That would be my overall summary. Throw out all the categories other than who is likely to enable his team to score sufficient points.
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I'll preface this by saying that I'm not putting Murray on Watson's level. While not perfect, as none of these QB's are, I think Watson is about as special as it gets with regard to traits in a winning QB.

But, in his two games vs Alabama, Watson's YPA were +2.8 and +1.9 (2015 and 2016) relative to what Alabama allowed the rest of those seasons. Murray was +2.4. He accounted for over 400 yards of offense and 3 TD. Watson accounted for more yards, and he had 1 more TD, in each of his games vs Alabama, but he also got off too a slow start in the game he won. And, Lincoln Riley did Murray no favors by thinking he could run against Alabama early. It's actually a little similar to watching Bill O'Brien put Deshaun Watson behind the sticks in the NFL.

The main differences between Watson's 2016 game and Murray's 2018 game vs Alabama are that Watson was allowed to throw more, Clemson had a quality D to keep them in the game, and they weren't facing Tua.

I'm definitely not saying that Murray played a perfect game, but given the circumstances, including Alabama abusing Oklahoma's OL, I think Murray showed well overall, and the game did not raise flags or cause concern for me with regard to Murray's potential as a pro. The biggest knock on Murray, outside of his stature, going into the game was that his OL afforded him an easy life at QB, so seeing him make plays vs pressure was a positive for me.

He threw a couple of bad balls into traffic early, and he inexplicably gave up a 1st down, when he just needed to dive forward; I believe that was the drive early where Oklahoma failed to convert a 4th down near midfield. Those plays annoyed me, but given how overmatched Oklahoma looked outside of Murray, I'm left with the impression that there are only a handful of QB's since 2010 that would find a way to keep it as close as he did (Newton, Luck, Wilson, and Watson are the ones that come to mind). I agree with Slimm that Mayfield is a cleaner QB prospect, but I think it would have been a tough game for him stylistically - just doesn't have the athleticism to overcome that kind of constant pressure.
 
There are a few that I like. I think if Haskins declares, he will likely be the #1 overall pick with some team moving up for him. Miami, sitting at #13, would have to pay more than Denver or the NY Giants. Including Laremy Tunsil, a top LT, could get Arizona's attention. Of course, then the Dolphins open up another hole at LT. I like a lot of Haskins game. He uses his eyes well, has that Big Ben size and some mobility. I like his arm.

I'm really intrigued Murray, who is more like Lamar Jackson but more accurate. He's small (listed at 5-10), but we've seen a few quarterbacks succeed at that height (Brees, Wilson, Mayfield).

Grier and Jones both strike me as second rounders, but they could go in the first with teams always pushing up quarterbacks. A mid-rounder that I like is Finley.

On paper, Miami looks like they could be in the running for the #1 overall pick in 2020. This is a bad roster right now. Some talented players, but only two at premium positions (Howard and Tunsil). There's very little talent on the defensive line, no pass rush, only one offensive lineman worth keeping (Tunsil). The Dolphins could easily end up 3-13 next year.
 
j-off-her-doll said:
I'll preface this by saying that I'm not putting Murray on Watson's level. While not perfect, as none of these QB's are, I think Watson is about as special as it gets with regard to traits in a winning QB.

But, in his two games vs Alabama, Watson's YPA were +2.8 and +1.9 (2015 and 2016) relative to what Alabama allowed the rest of those seasons. Murray was +2.4. He accounted for over 400 yards of offense and 3 TD. Watson accounted for more yards, and he had 1 more TD, in each of his games vs Alabama, but he also got off too a slow start in the game he won. And, Lincoln Riley did Murray no favors by thinking he could run against Alabama early. It's actually a little similar to watching Bill O'Brien put Deshaun Watson behind the sticks in the NFL.

The main differences between Watson's 2016 game and Murray's 2018 game vs Alabama are that Watson was allowed to throw more, Clemson had a quality D to keep them in the game, and they weren't facing Tua.

I'm definitely not saying that Murray played a perfect game, but given the circumstances, including Alabama abusing Oklahoma's OL, I think Murray showed well overall, and the game did not raise flags or cause concern for me with regard to Murray's potential as a pro. The biggest knock on Murray, outside of his stature, going into the game was that his OL afforded him an easy life at QB, so seeing him make plays vs pressure was a positive for me.

He threw a couple of bad balls into traffic early, and he inexplicably gave up a 1st down, when he just needed to dive forward; I believe that was the drive early where Oklahoma failed to convert a 4th down near midfield. Those plays annoyed me, but given how overmatched Oklahoma looked outside of Murray, I'm left with the impression that there are only a handful of QB's since 2010 that would find a way to keep it as close as he did (Newton, Luck, Wilson, and Watson are the ones that come to mind). I agree with Slimm that Mayfield is a cleaner QB prospect, but I think it would have been a tough game for him stylistically - just doesn't have the athleticism to overcome that kind of constant pressure.
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Hey J-off-her-doll. The two I like in the first round are Murray and Herbert. I think Herbert will go #1 with some team trading up for him. Murray may be available at #13. I didn't expect him to have a great game against Alabama. That was a huge task for Oklahoma. But I do think he's someone who is extremely tough to defend. Lamar Jackson, who I don't think is as talented, is 5-1 with Baltimore and has really sparked that team.

I do think the qb issue is Miami's biggest. I would be okay with building the defensive line and finding a mid-rounder (Finley maybe) and then maybe drafting a qb next year. But I think Miami will make a move for a quarterback this year.
 
SF Dolphin Fan said:
Hey J-off-her-doll. The two I like in the first round are Murray and Herbert. I think Herbert will go #1 with some team trading up for him. Murray may be available at #13. I didn't expect him to have a great game against Alabama. That was a huge task for Oklahoma. But I do think he's someone who is extremely tough to defend. Lamar Jackson, who I don't think is as talented, is 5-1 with Baltimore and has really sparked that team.

I do think the qb issue is Miami's biggest. I would be okay with building the defensive line and finding a mid-rounder (Finley maybe) and then maybe drafting a qb next year. But I think Miami will make a move for a quarterback this year.
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Herbert is staying in school one more year so Miami can't get him this year
 
Kyler Murray absolutely played well against Alabama. I don't even see any way of arguing it. Arguing otherwise does not stand up to a review of the game.
 
ckparrothead said:
Kyler Murray absolutely played well against Alabama. I don't even see any way of arguing it. Arguing otherwise does not stand up to a review of the game.
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Kind of where I'm at with it. I didn't think he was bad at all. At all. I was honestly impressed because I fully expected him to wilt after that Bama D started smacking them around at the start of the game.

I'd draft that kid in a heartbeat.
 
Did Kyler Murray have a couple of bad plays? Absolutely.

When you have to be the trigger man on 54 of 69 plays against the most intimidating defense in the country on national television, without any aid from your gimpy, stone-handed top receiver, you're going to have a few bad plays.

First thing that happens is Anfernee Jennings gets hold of just the right amount of jersey during a scramble, drags Kyler to straight down. Then Murray gets sacked on 3rd down. That's where a little bit of nerves set in, and it showed when he turfed a simple swing pass to Marquise Brown.

But after that, he was himself. You are allowed to have a few bad plays, ya know? And sometimes coverage is pretty good, ya know? Sometimes the other team is just better. With that abysmal Oklahoma defense, it's a miracle that didn't happen more than once this year. And that miracle's name was Kyler Murray.

When they got to a 3rd & 11, he's waiting for players to get open against a four-man rush (which means no hot routes, and long-developing routes because it's 3rd & 11), he's being protected by literally the most decorated offensive line in the country, that offensive line decides to cave and allow a blind side sack. So they lose a drive.

When it's 3rd & 15 because of a run play that lost 5 yards, and you throw a deep ball to your STAR speed merchant wide receiver, and he pulls up lame on the play with a bad hamstring, and now it looks overthrown, what are you supposed to do? Anticipate that he's gonna blow a hamstring on the play and pull the ball up a little? Another drive lost.

And on 3rd & 4 when you throw a whip route to your slot WR Myles Tease, and you hit the guy on the hands in tight quarters, and he doesn't catch the damn thing, yeah you might end up having to punt. Or if you go for it on 4th & 4, and once again you slip the ball up the narrowest of passing lanes straight up the shallow middle to the hands of your slot WR Myles Tease yet again, and he drops it yet again, what the hell are you supposed to do? Another drive lost.

When you throw the ball to the left sideline on 3rd & 6 near the goal line to your STAR wide receiver Marquise Brown, a play that could have gotten the 1st down or at WORST would have resulted in a doable 4th & 1, and your STAR receiver suddenly decides that in addition to a bad hammy his hands have now been replaced with butt cheeks, what the hell are you supposed to do? Catch it for him? On comes the Field Goal unit.

When you throw a DIME of a 50/50 pass to a 6'5" and 254 lbs guy facing man coverage in the end zone, in an extended time situation where nobody had got open, and the safety gets away with shoving him to the ground, making the throw look inaccurate when it was actually perfect, what the hell are you supposed to do? Go piss on the referee's shoes to remind him what yellow is supposed to look like?

I mean, the Sooners offense lost THREE DRIVES to start the game, trying to as a team get acclimated to Bama's level of speed and intensity, their game plan.

From then on, Oklahoma only had SIX drives for the rest of the game, unless you count Bama kicking the ball off to the Sooners who had take it at their own 25 yard line with 25 seconds left in the half. Those six drives gained 411 yards, every single one of them ended with a score, and they scored 34 points on them.

If anyone wants to sit here and pretend none of that matters, as if Alabama has a strong history of allowing a bunch of points and yards just because they happen to be up, as if the defense has been allowing 34 points per game instead of the 15 points per game they've actually allowed, that's fine.

But Kyler Murray had a hell of a game and the more closely you look at the performance, the more it stands up.
 
Awsi Dooger said:
That said, Murray has brilliance and the NFL rewards brilliance.
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This wraps up Murray for me. The kid has magnificent talent and natural athleticism. He's always looking downfield and can turn a game around instantly with big plays. Plus he's quick to release the ball and accurate with placement.

If Murray falls outside of the top 5-10, I want the Dolphins to trade up and go get him. If not Murray, wait until 2020.

This is all assuming Murray decides to play football.
 
Geordie said:
How can you not love this kid, just look at these highlights, this tape could have been twice as long. The guy is a difference maker, sell the damn farm, sell your neighbours farm, give up your first born, do whatever you need to to grab this guy, that may mean going all the way to #1, Oakland on speed dial.
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Jeesh! I'm more than sold. Sign me up. How exciting would Sunday's be again if he ended up in aqua/orange?!?
 
I don't like this draft as far as QB. I'm on record as saying that the only 1st round worthy QB was Justin Herbert of Oregon, but I recommended he return to school because he's still raw and needs a lot of work. Smartly, he decided to return to school. None of the guys in this class look like the answer to me. I'm all in for tanking in 2019 to get a franchise QB in 2020, when the class should be much better. At this point in time, my top choice would be Fromm of Georgia … kid is not complete and definitely still young and learning, but I really like his accuracy, release, arm and potential.
 
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