That's a perfectly fair point. I'm of the opinion that the "running" teams are actually more balanced than the "pass heavy" teams, aside from the outliers.
Running and defense wins championships
- Thread starter Phincos
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That's a perfectly fair point. I'm of the opinion that the "running" teams are actually more balanced than the "pass heavy" teams, aside from the outliers.
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I'm not sure many(any?) are intentionally "devaluing" the QB as much as tempering what seems like overvaluing the QB by others. You've heard the myth - an elite QB can carry his team. NOT.
Every fan of every team wants an elite QB. But data shows elite QBs (Rodgers, Ben) have NEVER won a SB without a top 5 D. Eli has. Get that QB, but don't think that's the ticket to the SB
Phinatic8u
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Its top 10.
Of course you need everything to go your way to win a SB. That's common sense. But to give yourself multiple years to win it all you need an elite offense. Elite defenses come and go almost yearly. 9ers better win this year or the defense will come crashing back down to a 4-12 year.
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No disagreement. QB, over time, is a factor in success. As long as people don't overvalue any one factor, I'm good
Phinatic8u
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Chiefs are going to have a 15 year window with Mahomes. Texans will have a window with Deshaun. Ravens with Lamar. Packers and Seahawks have had them. As has New Orleans. Give me the qb that can keep a team a float throughout multiple years when the ancillary parts may he lacking that particular season.
That's my whole argument.
russianbear
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kind of playing word games - temper all you want but without a great/elite/franchise/i dont care what you call it QB you're not going to be a contender year-in year out, period. end of story.
any team without one of "those" QBs (us), needs to put that as it's top priority every year until we get one.
i don't think it's possible to over value the QB...that's why they make head and shoulders more money per year than other positions, that's why they're going to pay mahomes $40m a year in the offseason...because he's the most valuable player in the NFL.... of course you can't do it alone but if you don't think aaron rodgers and russell wilson are carrying their collective teams idk what to tell you.
big ben, rodgers, brees, hell even brady, wilson, whoever - might not win a SB without a great defense & running game...but they're contenders every year and it's because of the QB. get ready to see a lot of chiefs, texans & ravens in the playoffs for the next 10 years because they got their QB. i don't care how you get it, top 5 pick, late 1st, whatever...but get a QB or you're fooling yourself thinking you can get consistent, longterm success without it
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Mahomes, Watson, and Jackson MAY have a window. No guarantees. Other than that, we're not far apart.
By my count (your definition of 'elite' may vary), from 2000 to 2016, 32 teams have been in the SB. Of those 32, 20 had top 10 D, 18 had top 10 OL, and 15 had elite QBs. And that doesn't count top 5 HCs.
Again, yes, try for an elite QB, but don't expect frequent SBs.
Just some stats from the 12 playoff teams:
9 of 12 ranked in the Top 12 in scoring.
8 of 12 ranked in top 12 in scoring Defense.
6 were in the top 12 in overall Offense.
6 were in the top 12 in Total Defense.
8 were in the top 12 in Rushing.
6 were int the top 12 in Rushing Defense.
4 were in the top 12 in Passing Offense.
5 were in the top 12 in Pass Defense.
10 of the top 12 were in the TOP 10 in turn-over differential.
9 of 12 ranked in the Top 12 in scoring.
8 of 12 ranked in top 12 in scoring Defense.
6 were in the top 12 in overall Offense.
6 were in the top 12 in Total Defense.
8 were in the top 12 in Rushing.
6 were int the top 12 in Rushing Defense.
4 were in the top 12 in Passing Offense.
5 were in the top 12 in Pass Defense.
10 of the top 12 were in the TOP 10 in turn-over differential.
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Just one year, but good stats. And how many of the final four have top HCs? Football is the ultimate team game. That's why I love it
This is a post from @j-off-her-doll from his section in VIP. I suggest that anyone looking for a serious discussion clicks on the tweet he posted in there. It will at the very least give insight as to why some of us keep pounding the table for building a strong passing game.
This is the big thing. KC's offense - due to multiple factors - was a little less explosive in 2019 than 2018, but it was still near the top. The D, especially the passing D, improved this year. It might regress next year or get even better. We'll see, but they'll be in contention either way - as long as Mahomes and a decent portion of the offense is healthy.
ATL_PHIN_FAN
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And the play action isn't very effective without the threat of Henry. It's a symbiotic relationship. Each benefits from the other, as well as the team overall. It's also known as balance.
tazthenomad
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Hasn't the notion of needing a very good running game for PA to work been disproved?
Yes, it has... BUT there are always outliers and I think Henry fits the outlier category... I noticed that you are VIP, I encourage you to take a look at this thread when you have 30-45 minutes to kill, j-off is always on top of the strategy trends. There's alot of gold in there for someone looking for insight into offense strategy.
https://finheaven.com/threads/schemes-offense.350866/
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ATL_PHIN_FAN
Winner Under Construction
It doesn't have to be great to help the passing game. But the more threat the running game is, the more effective the passing game will be.