Ryan Tannehill currently has 4th highest YPA in NFL

[Gonzo]

We're on the same page...
Here's an attempt to show just how rare elite QBs are and how likely it is we get one....
Everyone can agree that Rodgers, Big Ben, Brady, Wilson and Newton are your current bonified elite QBs...

The first one drafted in that bunch is Big Ben in 2004

That means 5 guys in 12 years

Thats not even one once every 2 drafts

Add in the fact that there are 10+ QBs drafted every year and that 4 of the 5 elite guys werent even drafted 1st overall and 2 of them beyond the 2nd round

Its quite obvious that 1) Sucking for anyone is a very stupid strategy 2) Finding that elite QB is alot more about luck than anything else.... About (2): It seems as though you can make your own luck by building a strong foundation, fixing your weakest links systematically until QB is your weakest link. Building a strong running game and defense makes any rookie QB's job a whole lot easier...

Finding a good QB is about talent evaluation more than anything, just like any other position. We've failed in talent evaluation for years. It hasn't been bad luck.

Your evaluation of elite talent seems kinda random. I'd put Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Phillip Rivers, and Drew Brees in with that bunch. Carson Palmer deserves mention, but he's in the twighlight of his career. I know Luck and Ryan will have naysayers who are either still upset about being on the wrong side of the Jake Wrong/Matt Ryan debate or are still pissy about Suck for Luck, but they are top QBs in this league, like it or not.

But you don't need elite. That's just a bonus. You certainly need consistently good and at the very least, all of the above fall into that category. Sure, teams make it to the playoffs al the time with average (at best) QBs and top talent elsewhere, just look at Cincy. Denver probably will too. But when the fat is on the fire and you're playing against other equally good teams, the top QB is going to win 9/10. Then the team with the average QB convinces themselves that it's not the QB that's the problem, that "plenty of teams do well with average QBs," so they continue to build in other areas. Then they're out in the first round of the playoffs again, scratching their heads and trying to figure out what went wrong.

 

[psfign]

Thank you guys for looking that info up! And I cant agree more, you can't run a franchise by neglecting your weakest links while spending so much on a slim shot of landing a better QB.

 

[Vaark]

I love the talk of, "he's been up and down his whole career."

When has he been up? What season was that?

The closest thing to an up season he's had was lazors first year which was clearly a fluke when compared to the rest of his career. And he folded up like a real coward when it came time to win an important game and get in the playoffs.

Everyone other season hes been garbage.

So no, he hasn't been up or down or inconsistent. He's flat out sucked.

Speaking about "flat out sucked" do you want to remind us again what a great GM TBum is and how lucky we were to end up with him? LOLOLOL

 

[NBP81]

Finding a good QB is about talent evaluation more than anything, just like any other position. We've failed in talent evaluation for years. It hasn't been bad luck.

Your evaluation of elite talent seems kinda random. I'd put Matt Ryan, Andrew Luck, Phillip Rivers, and Drew Brees in with that bunch. Carson Palmer deserves mention, but he's in the twighlight of his career. I know Luck and Ryan will have naysayers who are either still upset about being on the wrong side of the Jake Wrong/Matt Ryan debate or are still pissy about Suck for Luck, but they are top QBs in this league, like it or not.

But you don't need elite. That's just a bonus. You certainly need consistently good and at the very least, all of the above fall into that category. Sure, teams make it to the playoffs al the time with average (at best) QBs and top talent elsewhere, just look at Cincy. Denver probably will too. But when the fat is on the fire and you're playing against other equally good teams, the top QB is going to win 9/10. Then the team with the average QB convinces themselves that it's not the QB that's the problem, that "plenty of teams do well with average QBs," so they continue to build in other areas. Then they're out in the first round of the playoffs again, scratching their heads and trying to figure out what went wrong.

If its about talent evaluation, then why is it that Big Ben and Rodgers fell to the bottom of the 1st, Wilson all the way to the 3rd and Brady to the 6th?

My evaluation of elite talent was made on purpose, reality is that there are only 3 that will take you to the plaoffs no matter what, Big Ben, Rodgers and Brady.... Those are the only guys you could say might have brought the fins to the playoffs if you replaced Tannehill with one of them.... All of the others are in somewhat the same boat... Ryan, Brees, Luck and Rivers have all shown they cant do it all by themselves, just look at their playoffs appearances and its spotty at best... And why is luck considered elite or even good at this point? Only thing I can think of is draft hype because to date, he hasnt done ****...

 

[Gonzo]

If its about talent evaluation, then why is it that Big Ben and Rodgers fell to the bottom of the 1st, Wilson all the way to the 3rd and Brady to the 6th?

My evaluation of elite talent was made on purpose, reality is that there are only 3 that will take you to the plaoffs no matter what, Big Ben, Rodgers and Brady.... Those are the only guys you could say might have brought the fins to the playoffs if you replaced Tannehill with one of them.... All of the others are in somewhat the same boat... Ryan, Brees, Luck and Rivers have all shown they cant do it all by themselves, just look at their playoffs appearances and its spotty at best... And why is luck considered elite or even good at this point? Only thing I can think of is draft hype because to date, he hasnt done ****...

Because all three of their teams have shown to be superior talent evaluators, obviously. You don't honestly believe in "luck," do you?

Nobody has said these QBs can do it all on their own, even your top 3. But none of them need an all-time great supporting cast like you think we need to build here before addressing the most important position in football.

And do you really want to discuss playoff appearances in defense of Tannehill?

As for Luck, there's that Suck for Luck bitterness I was referring to. Two teams have failed to build around a QB recently, the Colts and the Phins. Only one of those has failed to make a playoff appearance. If you don't think Luck is a top QB talent in this league, it's either said bitterness or an inability to judge QB ability, which puts the defense of Tannehill into serious question. Yes, this team would have made the playoffs with Luck over the past few years. Absolutely.

 

[twix2500]

Because all three of their teams have shown to be superior talent evaluators, obviously. You don't honestly believe in "luck," do you?

Nobody has said these QBs can do it all on their own, even your top 3. But none of them need an all-time great supporting cast like you think we need to build here before addressing the most important position in football.

And do you really want to discuss playoff appearances in defense of Tannehill?

As for Luck, there's that Suck for Luck bitterness I was referring to. Two teams have failed to build around a QB recently, the Colts and the Phins. Only one of those has failed to make a playoff appearance. If you don't think Luck is a top QB talent in this league, it's either said bitterness or an inability to judge QB ability, which puts the defense of Tannehill into serious question. Yes, this team would have made the playoffs with Luck over the past few years. Absolutely.

You are tripping if you think Luck could get this team to the playoffs. Thats the problem with a lot in this group. Who think the overall talent is good enough

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[NBP81]

Because all three of their teams have shown to be superior talent evaluators, obviously. You don't honestly believe in "luck," do you?

Nobody has said these QBs can do it all on their own, even your top 3. But none of them need an all-time great supporting cast like you think we need to build here before addressing the most important position in football.

And do you really want to discuss playoff appearances in defense of Tannehill?

As for Luck, there's that Suck for Luck bitterness I was referring to. Two teams have failed to build around a QB recently, the Colts and the Phins. Only one of those has failed to make a playoff appearance. If you don't think Luck is a top QB talent in this league, it's either said bitterness or an inability to judge QB ability, which puts the defense of Tannehill into serious question. Yes, this team would have made the playoffs with Luck over the past few years. Absolutely.

So what you are telling me is that NE knew Brady was going to be elite and still passed on him until the 6th round? And that Seattle knew Wilson would be what he is right now and passed on him twice? You mean to tell me that more than 20 GMs didnt know WTF they were doing when they passed on Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers? Yes blind ****ing luck... OR all of those QB were put into situations were they didnt have to carry the load...

And although it might seem like Im defending Tannehill, Im also defending the next 1st round pick we might bring in next season. If you think any rookie QB is coming here and taking us to the playoffs status quo with the rest of the team, you're living in fantasy land....

You think Luck would have brought this team to the playoffs, in this division? I ask you what's Luck's record against the AFC east? You tell me well its a team game, well ditto to that!
Hell Tannehill and luck are from the same draft and have identical ratings while luck's division doesnt come close to the AFC east defensively...

I never spoke about all time great supporting cast, I litterally wrote average OL, is that to ****ing much to ask for? Because when we get average protection, we WIN...

 

[roy_miami]

If its about talent evaluation, then why is it that Big Ben and Rodgers fell to the bottom of the 1st, Wilson all the way to the 3rd and Brady to the 6th?

My evaluation of elite talent was made on purpose, reality is that there are only 3 that will take you to the plaoffs no matter what, Big Ben, Rodgers and Brady.... Those are the only guys you could say might have brought the fins to the playoffs if you replaced Tannehill with one of them.... All of the others are in somewhat the same boat... Ryan, Brees, Luck and Rivers have all shown they cant do it all by themselves, just look at their playoffs appearances and its spotty at best... And why is luck considered elite or even good at this point? Only thing I can think of is draft hype because to date, he hasnt done ****...

We had a top 10 defense in points in 2012 and 2013. We were the only team with a top 10 defense both years to not make the playoffs. Most teams with a top 10 defense in points make the playoffs and if memory serves every team with a top 10 defense in points made the playoffs in 2015. So I think its safe to assume a lot more than 3 QBs could have gotten us to the playoffs at least once.

 

[NBP81]

We had a top 10 defense in points in 2012 and 2013. We were the only team with a top 10 defense both years to not make the playoffs. Most teams with a top 10 defense in points make the playoffs and if memory serves every team with a top 10 defense in points made the playoffs in 2015. So I think its safe to assume a lot more than 3 QBs could have gotten us to the playoffs at least once.

Yes! Teams with a top 10 defense and a rookie QB who has Brian Hartline and Davone Bess as their starting WRs would usually try and run the ball and control the clock(Wilson, Ben, Sanchez and the list goes on...).... But no not Philbin...

 

[Gonzo]

So what you are telling me is that NE knew Brady was going to be elite and still passed on him until the 6th round? And that Seattle knew Wilson would be what he is right now and passed on him twice? You mean to tell me that more than 20 GMs didnt know WTF they were doing when they passed on Big Ben and Aaron Rodgers? Yes blind ****ing luck... OR all of those QB were put into situations were they didnt have to carry the load...

And although it might seem like Im defending Tannehill, Im also defending the next 1st round pick we might bring in next season. If you think any rookie QB is coming here and taking us to the playoffs status quo with the rest of the team, you're living in fantasy land....

You think Luck would have brought this team to the playoffs, in this division? I ask you what's Luck's record against the AFC east? You tell me well its a team game, well ditto to that!
Hell Tannehill and luck are from the same draft and have identical ratings while luck's division doesnt come close to the AFC east defensively...

I never spoke about all time great supporting cast, I litterally wrote average OL, is that to ****ing much to ask for? Because when we get average protection, we WIN...

Strawman, not at all what I'm saying. Brady is an anomaly, obviously. They clearly evaluated him and saw something in him to warrant drafting, but there's a reason he's the go to for justifying the absurd idea that you're just as likely to find a star QB in later rounds (which the idea of "luck" also essentially indicates). The Seahawks picked Wilson in the third because he was too good to pass up at that point, despite his measurables that likely caused other teams to pass on him. They did so despite bringing in Matt Flynn, who for all intents and purposes was going to be their starter. Clearly they saw enough talent to make a change of plans. Then there is Aaron Rodgers, probably the King of all hindsight argument QBs. GB did something the Phins should have before Marino retired, they proactively found a replacement to groom behind their aging star QB. Groom is the keyword there. Rodgers needed some work coming out of college, but the intangible talent was clearly there and GB had the perfect setup. Would he have succeeded in another team? Eventually, but it probably wouldn't have taken over 5 years . But yeah, I'm sure luck played the biggest role in it all. And nanobubbles. Don't forget the nanobubbles. Somebody claiming "luck" is a real thing telling me I live in fantasy land. Amazing.

And yes, Luck would have brought this team to the playoffs. No doubt about it. Inherited a **** team with **** coaches just like Tannehill and has still managed to make multiple playoff appearances. We've only missed the playoffs by a game or two several seasons. I absolutely believe Luck is at least one win better per season than Tannehill, and I don't even hate Tannehill (think he's mediocre, Alex Smith, Dalton level). Luck is just clearly better. Some Dolphins fans and maybe fans of Indy's rivals are the only ones who think otherwise.

 

[NBP81]

Strawman, not at all what I'm saying. Brady is an anomaly, obviously. They clearly evaluated him and saw something in him to warrant drafting, but there's a reason he's the go to for justifying the absurd idea that you're just as likely to find a star QB in later rounds (which the idea of "luck" also essentially indicates). The Seahawks picked him in the third because he was too good to pass up at that point, despite his measurables that likely caused other teams to pass on him. They did so despite bringing in Matt Flynn, who for intents and purposes was going to be their starter. Clearly they saw enough talent to make a change of plans. Then there is Aaron Rodgers, probably the King of all hindsight argument QBs. GB did something the Phins should have before Marino retired, they proactively found a replacement to groom behind their aging star QB. Groom is the keyword there. Rodgers needed some work coming out of college, but the intangible talent was clearly there and GB had the perfect setup. Would he have succeeded in another team? Eventually, but it probably wouldn't have taken over 5 years . But yeah, I'm sure luck played the biggest role in it all. And nanobubbles. Don't forget the nanobubbles. Somebody claiming "luck" is a real thing telling me I live in fantasy land. Amazing.

And yes, Luck would have brought this team to the playoffs. No doubt about it. Inherited a **** team with **** coaches just like Tannehill and has still managed to make multiple playoff appearances. We've only missed the playoffs by a game or two several seasons. I absolutely believe Luck is at least one win better per season than Tannehill, and I don't even hate Tannehill (think he's mediocre, Alex Smith, Dalton level). Luck is just clearly better. Some Dolphins fans and maybe fans of Indy's rivals are the only ones who think otherwise.

So the 3 best QBs in the game are anomalies... thanks for making my point for me... And Im the one making strawman arguments..

 

[Gonzo]

So the 3 best QBs in the game are anomalies... thanks for making my point for me... And Im the one making strawman arguments..

Jesus Christ, I didn't say that either. I said pretty much the exact opposite about all but Brady. BTW, the top QB right now is Matt Ryan. :d-day:

 

[NBP81]

Jesus Christ, I didn't say that either. I said pretty much the exact opposite about all but Brady. BTW, the top QB right now is Matt Ryan. :d-day:

Agree to disagree bro... Just hope we beat the **** out of the Bills tomorrow!

 

[Vaark]

Jesus Christ, I didn't say that either. I said pretty much the exact opposite about all but Brady. BTW, the top QB right now is Matt Ryan. :d-day:

Considering that thru 13-15 with a better OL, much better running game and elite receiver, he won 1 less game than Tannehill, and that when he was loaded with receivers, rushers and the GOAT tight end, you could depend on his testicles to ascend in the second half of PO games, that's gotta mean there's hope for Tannehill next year too. :up:

 

[roy_miami]

Yes! Teams with a top 10 defense and a rookie QB who has Brian Hartline and Davone Bess as their starting WRs would usually try and run the ball and control the clock(Wilson, Ben, Sanchez and the list goes on...).... But no not Philbin...

We were 11th in rushing percentage in 2012 rushing at 45%. The Colts with Luck as a rookie were 24th and they did OK.