Tannehill, Gase & Tannenbaum: Epic Failures

[Ray R]

This is why some of us say negative things.


Show me an example of a "hater" saying he would never get to 12th in passer rating over a season. There is nothing special about being 12th for one thing.

Ask the guy at 13 about that.

 

[FinfanInBuffalo]

Well than there is actually looking at what he has developed into the last 7 years and wonder how it so hard for some to believe that questioning his ability and consistency should be so hard to understand.. I mean if you can't even see why there is such a question that Fans have a right to express kind of says a lot of one's own evaluations.
Think the thought that walking, baby feeding, or type of undies as a baby might have a huge question mark on your perspective to think and apply that thought process on someone else as to the formation of one's opinion on the guys progress....

Personally this year is another test for him hope its successful but would be over joyed at putting a new QB at the top of our list of needs for next season (hey be also over joyed to be wrong and RT blows all our minds with consistency and effectiveness)....JMO...

I get frustrated when people say Tannehill is still a question mark primarily because his career record is 37-40. Then claim that Stafford, Carr, Mariota, Winston, Goff, Watson, Cousins are not proven or better than Tannehill. They have career records 60-65, 28-34, 20-22, 18-27, 11-12, 3-3, and 26-31. All of them except Watson have a WORSE career winning % than Tannehill.

 

[superphin]

Precisely. The great poster cbrad on the other site researched the matter recently and found out that even Tannehill's touted 8 game stretch in 2016 wasn't anything special. It fell in line with the best 8 game stretch for other quarterbacks. The cherry picking types here were comparing the best run of games Tannehill ever had to the season ending numbers of other quarterbacks. Convenient.

I don't know if I'm considered a Tannehill hater. I hate that we ever drafted him because the possibility of this type of drag-on career was glaring before he ever put on an NFL uniform. I posted in the Draft Forum prior to that draft that I thought Tannehill's upside was 12th in the league. Through all the adjustments around here I've never seen anything to change my mind.

I have to say it is an improvement that some of the posters who would have avalanched this thread are gone. Otherwise we would have had non-stop screen captures asserting Philbin as the worst coach ever and Lazor as the worst offensive coordinator ever. That stuff was an insult but it was allowed to monopolize this forum far too long. We've been nothing but Crowd no matter who is coaching or playing yet somehow we managed Crowd despite all those bottom of the barrel coaches. Wow, that must have been quite the roster, especially with the important pieces.

Somehow I don't remember that.

Otherwise, I have no idea how Saban waiting until a halftime deficit of a national championship game to yank a sophomore in favor of an elite true freshman has any relationship to Tannehill's situation at Texas A&M. If Tannehill were considered elite or anything close then he would have played early and throughout his college career, possibly departing after three seasons. The parallel at Alabama is all those journeyman types who Saban has played at quarterback, and won huge with, including titles. Ryan Tannehill absolutely could have won national championships in that situation. Alabama talent level dictates outcomes. But none of those journeyman types was tipped toward NFL star. McCarron and McElroy were later round types.

Age does matter in draft prospects. That's one reason that Jim Coburn is currently light years my favorite draft analyst. In following this stuff for almost 50 years he is the first guy to astutely study age at every position and make it a major variable in his rankings. But in terms of college quarterbacks translating to the NFL the research has been done countless times. I've seen it for decades. The findings are always the same. The younger range fares best and there is a sucker quality to quarterbacks who are still in college at 23, especially if they have not been longtime starters. That was my objection to Ryan Tannehill. As always, I look at more-often-than-not. The Tannehill payoff almost certainly wasn't going to be top of the ladder, the projections toward greatness. On that other Dolphins site I saw a guy who apparently was a former scout liken Tannehill's upside to Aaron Rodgers. In fact, he has done it numerous times. That is glaring verification that scouting is primitive and overly subjective. He should have had it drilled into him before watching his first practice as a scout that age means a great deal with quarterbacks, and not to get carried away with arm, stature, accuracy and other physical qualities, if the age aspect is red flag. Something is wrong.

Here is the latest version of the age research. The sweet spot with quarterbacks is ones who enter the league after playing their final college season at age 21. Once you reach age 23 and older there is a decisive dropoff, especially if the quarterback has fewer than 35 college games under his belt.

https://www.numberfire.com/nfl/news/18979/nfl-draft-does-age-matter-for-quarterback-prospects

All of that seems self explanatory to me. Ryan Tannehill has actually done a very nice job performing above the level that would be expected of a player with his college background. But we made a poor choice in terms of value and upside. It has been a trend for far too long, including first round choices like JuWaun James and Charles Harris. That's largely why we are stuck in Crowd. Someone here the other day raved about Robert Quinn because the Dolphins finally understood value for a chance...Quinn worth more than a 4th rounder. Absolutely. Let's keep it up.

***

* Yes, this does resemble an NYJUNC thread. I was extremely annoyed when someone beat me to that comparison. In the old days whenever a thread gained many pages in short order, it was guaranteed to be Vaark arguing with NYJUNC.

* Regarding the reference to Georgia governor, I don't have to know anything about the poster who first brought that up. I prefer him over the guy who apparently will become Georgia governor in a few months.

cbrad is a freaking genius god i wish he posted here, nobody does what he does. I mean a lot of his stuff goes way over my head when he breaks down the math but still, I don't think there's many here who can go toe to toe with him.

 

[The Goat]

Hello Finheaven posters, I'm ChadRico, I'm new to Finheaven, I come from another Dolphins message board Fieldchatter.com/Dolphins but our numbers have started to widdle away over the last couple of years, so I'm happy to be joining a more active board.

I have been a fan of the Dolphins since I was 4 years old, I am now 34 and have to say, I have never been so disappointed in the direction of this franchise. I can't remember entering a season with such little excitement and low expectations.

The day we drafted Tannehill, I was very disappointed, I thought he was a massive reach with the 1st round pick, but as any fan would do, I put my theories aside and rooted for Tannehill. Had you told me that day, Tannehill would be our QB for the next 7 years and have zero playoff wins, I would have probably become physically ill.

Watching Tannehill play last night against the Panthers brought back all the same feelings and questions I've had over the last 7 years. Why did we draft this guy? Why don't we bring in a competent QB to compete with him in the off season? Why can't anyone in the Dolphins organization see what so many of the fans can see? Tannehill can't read defenses. Tannehill has awful pocket presence. Tannehill can't deliver in the red zone. Tannehill can't call effective audibles. After 7 years Tannehill hasn't appeared to get any better either.

Many people have blamed last night's awful offensive performance on Gase and the play calling. Awful as it was, a QB with 7 years experience, given the ball inside the 10 yard line should score a Touchdown. On 3rd and goal from the 20, a good QB would not allow his team to run a draw play virtually guaranteeing the drives failure.

The recent "culture change" that Adam Gase and Tannenbaulm have overseen has left our roster in absolute shambles. From over paying McCain to signing aging players like Gore and Amendola our roster is old and has gaping holes at the linebacker positions as well as the defensive line. I understand Suh was being paid too much and letting him go was wise to help solidify the cap situation, but why did we turn around and pay Amendola and Wilson the same money we could have used to keep Landry? Landry was not bad for our "culture" I don't care what Gase says, the guy was our best player and by a large margin.

The VP if Football Operations Mike Tannenbaulm was the worst hire Stephen Ross could have made. I knew the day he was hired, it was basically ushering in the dark ages for the Dolphins franchise. Our team has no future until this rat is fired.

Well that's my 1st post, I hope you guys won't hate me for my opinion, my dream is to see this team win a super bowl before I die, I just don't think any of the guys mentioned in the title will be around here when it happens.

I wish you the best of luck here.

Ryan Tannehill has played fewer than five years as the starting QB of the Miami Dolphins. He does not have seven years of experience.

Other than that, I understand your frustration. Not everyone thinks he's the Messiah, like some will suggest. Not everyone thinks he's the worst ever, like others will suggest. There are extremists, like with everything else.

Enjoy.

 

[AgentXof12]

Has there ever been a player in Dolphins history that has been painted with so many outliers as Tannehill? There's probably an outlier to that question. Let's just hope he can finally become the qb we have been yearning for, all those outliers rolled up into one.

The difference between you and me is you yearn for a QB while I yearn for a championship football team. The latter may include the former but doesn't require it.

Well than there is actually looking at what he has developed into the last 7 years and wonder how it so hard for some to believe that questioning his ability and consistency should be so hard to understand.. I mean if you can't even see why there is such a question that Fans have a right to express kind of says a lot of one's own evaluations.
Think the thought that walking, baby feeding, or type of undies as a baby might have a huge question mark on your perspective to think and apply that thought process on someone else as to the formation of one's opinion on the guys progress....

Personally this year is another test for him hope its successful but would be over joyed at putting a new QB at the top of our list of needs for next season (hey be also over joyed to be wrong and RT blows all our minds with consistency and effectiveness)....JMO...

I'm making a lot of effort to understand what you wrote, so please bear with me. Those of us who find it hard to believe that anyone questions Ryan Tannehill's ability is because the loudest of those who are questioning make assertions that the guy isn't even good enough to be a starting QB. When those types of statements pop up frequently from trolls, then the discussion is simply off the table. Not only is Tannehill a starting QB, but his numbers have shown it every season -- so it's not even a question a sane person would ask. Then there are the fans who are discontent with having Tannehill as the Dolphins QB, and it's inevitable that their discontent would sound a lot like the trolls. At this point, very few fans believe Tannehill has the potential to be elite. So let's not act like anyone is deluded in that belief. He might be in the top 10 of QBs when the team has a really good season (meaning he has a complete team around him) -- that's not special, in fact you'd expect any average to good QB to be top 10 in the NFL on a playoff team.

Lastly, I think you're wrong about tests for Tannehill. He's passed all the tests. His coach believes in him, and that tells me enough about Tannehill. This thought that anyone is going to come up and take the starting job away and send Tannehill to the pile of back up QBs for the rest of his career is the grandest delusion at play in these discussions.

 

[hoops]

With many experts believing Nick Bosa and Ed Oliver are can't miss prospects, a qb may be available if Tanny doesn't work out, I don't think we will suck enough for a top 5 pick though.

Yeah I’m just spit balling more than anything. Bosa would have been a top 5 grade worthy pick in the 18 draft even.

43 de

 

[Danny]

wtf happen to this thread. Seems like half of it now belongs in the political forum and the other half belongs on the "I'm right and you're not" forum.

 

[Vaark]

Nyjunc? I miss him and wish he was unbanned lol.

Oh sure.. one of the most frenzied, highest volume posters especially after a dolphins/jets win or loss where seeing 30 daily posts was not an aberration.

He was a troll supreme who delighted in deflating/derailing any positive Fins news like clockwork, labeling those who didn't see things his pro Jets, anti Fins way as "homers." This is ironic considering many of the "homers" were Supporters who actually put their hands in their pockets to underwrite his douchebaggery since he refused to carry his own heavy posting volume weight even knowing the site was financially struggling..

Great idea LOL

 

[The Tannehills Have Eyes]

Oh sure.. one of the most frenzied, highest volume posters especially after a dolphins/jets win or loss where seeing 30 daily posts was not an aberration.

He was a troll supreme who delighted in deflating/derailing any positive Fins news like clockwork, labeling those who didn't see things his pro Jets, anti Fins way as "homers." This is ironic considering many of the "homers" were Supporters who actually put their hands in their pockets to underwrite his douchebaggery since he refused to carry his own heavy posting volume weight even knowing the site was financially struggling..

Great idea LOL

I don't think he was trolling even in those Mark Sanchez discussions. He was just completely delusional. That being said he was one of the OGs and was a character on here lol. He produced some quality content and I remember when he was around here you were too at your hilarious photoshopping comments peak. I looked forward to his meltdowns. I also miss WVDolphin and will never forget "that" thread.

 

[Daytona Fin]

The difference between you and me is you yearn for a QB while I yearn for a championship football team. The latter may include the former but doesn't require it.

They go hand in hand but I'm sure there are a couple outliers.

 

[.....]

Oh sure.. one of the most frenzied, highest volume posters especially after a dolphins/jets win or loss where seeing 30 daily posts was not an aberration.

He was a troll supreme who delighted in deflating/derailing any positive Fins news like clockwork, labeling those who didn't see things his pro Jets, anti Fins way as "homers." This is ironic considering many of the "homers" were Supporters who actually put their hands in their pockets to underwrite his douchebaggery since he refused to carry his own heavy posting volume weight even knowing the site was financially struggling..

Great idea LOL

Boom!

 

[The Tannehills Have Eyes]

This forum traffic isn't anything. Wait till the regular season starts. Having a down year with Cutler (No Tanny) in 2017) a few early wins this server could blow-up in a good way.

Dolphins win = server probably blows up. Ryan Tannehill interception = server blows up. It's going to get crazy on here in a few weeks.

 

[NY8123]

Nyjunc? I miss him and wish he was unbanned lol.

Here let me help...............

Sam Darnold is better than Rayn Tannehill in every way. His down field accuracy is better, his ability to read the defense has been much better. His pocket presence so far as a rookie looks much better than Tannehill who is in his 7th year. The Giants really made a mistake on passing him up for Barkley and it won't be long before you understand that Darnold will be a top 10 QB winning games with his play. The Jets haven't had a QB this good since Mark Sanchez and Darnold is superior to Sanchez so I expect at least 11 wins this season.

How'd I do with my junc impersonation?

 

[LoneStarPhin]

Awsi,

That age/draft post was well thought out and informative- thanks.

However, I think the bottom line is that the Fins needed a QB, and even in retrospect 7 years later, they got at least the 3rd best QB in the draft.

And the book on RT is not closed. He is a 5yr vet who has gotten better each year even with some questionable coaching and talent around him.

The Dolphins did well with that pick.

 

[hoops]

Here let me help...............

Sam Darnold is better than Rayn Tannehill in every way. His down field accuracy is better, his ability to read the defense has been much better. His pocket presence so far as a rookie looks much better than Tannehill who is in his 7th year. The Giants really made a mistake on passing him up for Barkley and it won't be long before you understand that Darnold will be a top 10 QB winning games with his play. The Jets haven't had a QB this good since Mark Sanchez and Darnold is superior to Sanchez so I expect at least 11 wins this season.

How'd I do with my junc impersonation?

Not very well. He’d say Darnold sucks if his reputation for qbs carried

Jets fans should be very excited.