Trade Hartline and a 4th for A. Johnson

[Zounds]

Regarding salaries, Andre Johnson and Brian Hartline's pro-rated signing bonuses would be immediate cap hits if they were traded, meaning only the base salaries written into the contracts are going to be the cap his for each player. That's cap hits of $4.875 million for Brian Hartline on the Texans, and $10 million for Andre Johnson on the Fins.

Johnson's skills will be falling off quickly, and in a year or two, Hartline's skill will exceed Johnson's by default of age. I'd only trade for Johnson if we were 1 key player away from wining a championship, but we aren't in the championship hunt, and Hartline offers more long term stability for our WR corps while saving us a lot of money.

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

I'd prefer trading Wallace for aj straight across. Too bad we gave him such a big contract nobody wants him.

Sent from my ass using Tapatalk

We gave Wallace a bad contract, but that doesn't mean he is a bad player.

 

[NBP81]

For everyone bitching about Johnson's contracting burdening us in the future, everyone is aware that his deal expires a year earlier than Hartline's, correct? And its not like Hartline isnt making nothing, he has a cap hit of something like just under $8 million a year going forward.

This team has a quarterback on a rookie deal. Teams like the Denver have few problems with their cap despite having a $100 million quarterback on their roster. If we cant afford Andre Johnson, then the problem isnt with his contract its with this front office. We just dont have that much talent on this roster, theres no reason why we should be near the cap limit. If we really are in that bad of shape, the answer isnt to avoid good but expensive players, its to cut the mouthbreathers like Phillip Wheeler.

And absolutely love the oft-repeated excuse for Hartline: hes Tannehill's best target! Somehow i missed people using that same logic when it came to John Jerry. I mean, he was our best guard, so of course we should have kept him!
...or we can simply recognize that being the best at a subpar unit is irrelevant and our focus should be on improving that area of the team.

This team is littered with Brian Hartline's. Which is why we keep ending up with an average record year after year. It never ceases to amaze me how the same people who vehemently defend average players act like theyve been completely blindsided when we finish with an average record.

Im done with this, hey if your fine being stuck with a 15MIL 36 year old WR in the very near future, I dont know what to tell you. You don't like Hartline I get it, so you suggest we bring in someone who will be twice as overpaid. Great strategy...

 

[Zounds]

And absolutely love the oft-repeated excuse for Hartline: hes Tannehill's best target! Somehow i missed people using that same logic when it came to John Jerry. I mean, he was our best guard, so of course we should have kept him!
...or we can simply recognize that being the best at a subpar unit is irrelevant and our focus should be on improving that area of the team.

You missed the logic because it doesn't apply to John Jerry. Hartline was Tannhill's favorite target because he could get open. Jerry was our best guard (in reality he wasn't) because the other linemen were terrible. You can't say Hartline was getting open because the other WRs were terrible.

 

[TheWalrus]

Hartline was reliable. He dropped quite a few more passes last year. Not enough to make his drop rate bad, but if your hands are closer to average and you're not putting points on the board, you're not doing much to help the team win games.

Actually I'm willing to Hartline the benefit of the doubt on the drops last year. In his other four years in the league he had three drops (three times) and four drops two years ago. Nine is way above average for him. I'd expect a return to the three or four range this year, perhaps closer to four or five because his targets have gone up since early in his career.

 

[So Be]

For everyone bitching about Johnson's contracting burdening us in the future, everyone is aware that his deal expires a year earlier than Hartline's, correct? And its not like Hartline isnt making nothing, he has a cap hit of something like just under $8 million a year going forward.

This team has a quarterback on a rookie deal. Teams like the Denver have few problems with their cap despite having a $100 million quarterback on their roster. If we cant afford Andre Johnson, then the problem isnt with his contract its with this front office. We just dont have that much talent on this roster, theres no reason why we should be near the cap limit. If we really are in that bad of shape, the answer isnt to avoid good but expensive players, its to cut the mouthbreathers like Phillip Wheeler..

http://overthecap.com/teamcap.php?Team=Dolphins&Year=2014

Here's the best site you will find on the salary cap to confirm the numbers I had posted.

Hartline will cost $4M this year, and has a $6M cap hit. Next year we would save $3M or a $7M cap hit. AJ, with his roster bonus, is due $11M this year, $11.5 next year, and $12M in 2016. In a case like this, a player can re-negotiate his contract. His guaranteed signing bonus is in the bank, and not part of the trade. The trading team could give him a new signing bonus, extend the contract, and take a lower cap hit the first year. My guess would be that a contending team, thinking they are a player away, might consider doing this but, not Miami at this point in time.

This year, Wallace would cost us $9.5 if traded or cut. Next year we save $2.5M, and in 2016 $9.3M.

Wheeler has a $6.4M cap hit this year, and would cost $4.4 to cut or trade him. Next year, his price goes down to $4.2M, and we save $200 bucks by trade or cut.

This year, we did have the money to do what we wanted when FA started but, not now. With $13M left, we are still in VG shape if a good deal should come up but not for a blockbuster.

Next year, we will again have many options depending on how players play, specifically Tannehill, Wallace, Finnegen, etc.

 

[miamiron]

Trade a young ascending possession receiver AND A DRAFT PICK for an overpaid, descending possession receiver. This seems well thought out. I'll forward to Hickey!

Andre is desending?
109 receptions with 1407 yards receiving in 2013
112 receptions with 1598 yards receiving in 2012

May all our receivers decend to such a degree

 

[So Be]

Actually I'm willing to Hartline the benefit of the doubt on the drops last year. In his other four years in the league he had three drops (three times) and four drops two years ago. Nine is way above average for him. I'd expect a return to the three or four range this year, perhaps closer to four or five because his targets have gone up since early in his career.

How much, if at all, do you think Hartline's drops were affected by moving strictly to the left side to accommodate Wallace in Sherman's O?

 

[TheWalrus]

How much, if at all, do you think Hartline's drops were affected by moving strictly to the left side to accommodate Wallace in Sherman's O?

I don't see how that would make a difference.

 

[So Be]

I don't see how that would make a difference.

I was just curious if his injury holding him out of camp would have had any affect on the timing, as he was RT's security blanket on the right side in the past, and did not know.

 

[Spesh]

Im done with this, hey if your fine being stuck with a 15MIL 36 year old WR in the very near future, I dont know what to tell you. You don't like Hartline I get it, so you suggest we bring in someone who will be twice as overpaid. Great strategy...

Id rather be stuck with a future hall of famer then a soon to be 30 year old overpaid average player who will only step foot in Canton while in a tour group. Especially since one contract happens to be longer than the other.

In any case, until we have to give out a $100 million contract, we can shoulder the "burden" of acquiring a talented player. Id rather give Tannehill all the help humanly possible so he has the best chance of earning that contract then continue handing him players who have shown they cant do all of their job because they need mid-play breaks to literally smell the roses. Even better, if we were to go through with a trade like this, we would get to stop worrying about getting a call from the FCC asking our team to explain why one of our receivers refused to get up after a play so he could lick the turf and make hip thrusting motions while on live tv. I suspect that fine would make up the difference between Johnson and Hartline's contracts.

And again, if we somehow cant afford the deal, the answer isnt avoiding good players, its getting rid of our terrible ones(i see Southbeach brought up Cortland Finnegan in another post, perfect example). One would think that would be our goal in any scenario, but apparently that just isnt a priority.

 

[So Be]

Id rather be stuck with a future hall of famer then a soon to be 30 year old overpaid average player who will only step foot in Canton while in a tour group. Especially since one contract happens to be longer than the other.

In any case, until we have to give out a $100 million contract, we can shoulder the "burden" of acquiring a talented player. Id rather give Tannehill all the help humanly possible so he has the best chance of earning that contract then continue handing him players who have shown they cant do all of their job because they need mid-play breaks to literally smell the roses. Even better, if we were to go through with a trade like this, we would get to stop worrying about getting a call from the FCC asking our team to explain why one of our receivers refused to get up after a play so he could lick the turf and make hip thrusting motions while on live tv. I suspect that fine would make up the difference between Johnson and Hartline's contracts.

And again, if we somehow cant afford the deal, the answer isnt avoiding good players, its getting rid of our terrible ones(i see Southbeach brought up Cortland Finnegan in another post, perfect example). One would think that would be our goal in any scenario, but apparently that just isnt a priority.

We're stuck with some bad deals, as is every team but, they get less worse next year. Then again, maybe players come close to playing up to their contracts this year. We can hope.

 

[maralieus]

Regarding salaries, Andre Johnson and Brian Hartline's pro-rated signing bonuses would be immediate cap hits if they were traded, meaning only the base salaries written into the contracts are going to be the cap his for each player. That's cap hits of $4.875 million for Brian Hartline on the Texans, and $10 million for Andre Johnson on the Fins.

Johnson's skills will be falling off quickly, and in a year or two, Hartline's skill will exceed Johnson's by default of age. I'd only trade for Johnson if we were 1 key player away from wining a championship, but we aren't in the championship hunt, and Hartline offers more long term stability for our WR corps while saving us a lot of money.

---------- Post added at 01:59 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------



We gave Wallace a bad contract, but that doesn't mean he is a bad player.

That's true. I didn't say he was. That's why he would get a straight across deal. Johnson is better obviously, but Wallace is still good and younger and not injury prone.

 

[RobertHorry]

It's hilarious how everyone thinks Hartline is some mainstay that we cannot trade for Johnson. That is ridiculous. I can name 2 receivers who could fill his position just as good or better than him right now on this roster.

1. Brandon Gibson
2. Jarvis Landry

3. Rishard Matthews ( if he ever stops being an idiot)

 

[NY8123]

I was just curious if his injury holding him out of camp would have had any affect on the timing, as he was RT's security blanket on the right side in the past, and did not know.

If anything I think it has the opposite effect, I think it forces Tannehill to improve his relationships with other receivers.

 

[Zounds]

It's hilarious how everyone thinks Hartline is some mainstay that we cannot trade for Johnson. That is ridiculous. I can name 2 receivers who could fill his position just as good or better than him right now on this roster.

1. Brandon Gibson
2. Jarvis Landry

3. Rishard Matthews ( if he ever stops being an idiot)

None of those receivers are better than Hartline as of today. I'm not a big Hartline fan, but I'm also not going to make lofty statements that the rest of the WR corps is better than him. Gibson is coming off of a severe injury, and although he was good on the inside last year, he was not winning on the outside while in St Louis. And Landry is a rookie - I don't think you can say he is better than anyone right now. As for Matthews, there's a fair shot he doesn't even make the team this year.