Trade Hartline and a 4th for A. Johnson | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Trade Hartline and a 4th for A. Johnson

I wouldn't get rid of Hartline...he's been our most reliable receiver for a few years. You guys keep saying he's not a playmaker but he's the only receiver on this team in the past 3 years who has consistently made plays. The guy runs great routes, catches everything, keeps his toes in on those tough sideline catches....so again tell me why he sucks? Because he doesn't run a 4.3 40??? Hartline is a better wide receiver than mike Wallace he's just not as fast. If you put hartline on teams like pats or if he played withbpeyton hartline would probably be considered a top receiver in the league. Yea Wallace can take a play to the house at any given moment BUT hartline is a possession receiver who continuously moves the chains.
 
NBP81 said:
You want to get rid of Hartline and that's fine, but I cant believe you`d do so by trading him for a 33year old WR on the decline who is going to make 15MIL+ the next 3 years and call that sound roster management... Johnson had 5 TDs last year
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Which is as many TDs as Hartline has had in the last two years combined... and that's with Case Keenum starting half the year. Not to mention Johnson had 1,400 yards. People around here want to anoint Hartline for getting to 1,000 yards.

I repeat. Andre Johnson is a better receiver today than Brian Hartline. And he'll be a better receiver three years from now than Brian Hartline. But at least when you have Johnson in the building you know you have to replace him, and soon. You plan for it. People around here act as if Hartline is going to be a mainstay on this team for another five or six years, which is just bleargh.
 
TheWalrus said:
Which is as many TDs as Hartline has had in the last two years combined... and that's with Case Keenum starting half the year. Not to mention Johnson had 1,400 yards. People around here want to anoint Hartline for getting to 1,000 yards.

I repeat. Andre Johnson is a better receiver today than Brian Hartline. And he'll be a better receiver three years from now than Brian Hartline. But at least when you have Johnson in the building you know you have to replace him, and soon. You plan for it. People around here act as if Hartline is going to be a mainstay on this team for another five or six years, which is just bleargh.
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Were not getting Johnson but explain to me why hartline sucks...
 
Just curious why u would want to trade away our most reliable receiver and tannehills favorite target...
 
Nawledge said:
Just curious why u would want to trade away our most reliable receiver and tannehills favorite target...
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Because in the scenario put forth by the OP, we would get a better player in return.
 
Nawledge said:
Just curious why u would want to trade away our most reliable receiver and tannehills favorite target...
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Hartline is capable. He runs pretty good routes, he works hard, his hands are pretty good. The problem is he offers absolutely nothing after the catch. He is one of the very worst receivers after the catch that I've ever seen... usually he just falls down. Last year was actually one of the better YAC years that he's had for a while, nevertheless his 4.2 average was near the bottom of the league. Because of his lack of strength and body control, he also offers nothing in the red zone, which is why he's had more years where he only caught one touchdown (3) than years where he's caught more than one touchdown (2). Hartline can get you first downs. He can move the chains. But he doesn't make big plays on his own, and he doesn't put the ball in the end zone.

Why don't you think we need more than that?

Hartline is Tannehill's favorite because he's the most consistent receiver on the team. That does not by itself mean he is very good. If you put Andre Johnson on this team, Andre Johnson will become his favorite target. Johnson is also consistent, runs good routes, and catches the ball... and he also can make contested catches and runs well after the catch.
 
TheWalrus said:
Which is as many TDs as Hartline has had in the last two years combined... and that's with Case Keenum starting half the year. Not to mention Johnson had 1,400 yards. People around here want to anoint Hartline for getting to 1,000 yards.

I repeat. Andre Johnson is a better receiver today than Brian Hartline. And he'll be a better receiver three years from now than Brian Hartline. But at least when you have Johnson in the building you know you have to replace him, and soon. You plan for it. People around here act as if Hartline is going to be a mainstay on this team for another five or six years, which is just bleargh.
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You keep telling me Andre Johnson is better than Hartline, I already conceded that. What I want to know is how on earth you can justify allocating 27MIL of our cap for this season on 2 WRs. Especially on a team that's not contending for a SB...It just doesn't make any sense unless there s something you know that I don't... But I doubt it since all your replies are about AJ being better than Hartline totally ignoring this part of the conversation. There are a lot of better receivers than Hartline in the NFL, it doesn't mean we should go after each and every single one of them, especially not an overpaid old one, since we already have an overpaid speed one on the roster...
 
NBP81 said:
You keep telling me Andre Johnson is better than Hartline, I already conceded that. What I want to know is how on earth you can justify allocating 27MIL of our cap for this season on 2 WRs. Especially on a team that's not contending for a SB...It just doesn't make any sense unless there s something you know that I don't... But I doubt it since all your replies are about AJ being better than Hartline totally ignoring this part of the conversation. There are a lot of better receivers than Hartline in the NFL, it doesn't mean we should go after each and every single one of them, especially not an overpaid old one, since we already have an overpaid speed one on the roster...
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Can we afford it? I'm not an expert on our cap situation. Southbeach has suggested that we can't, though I haven't looked at the numbers myself.

However if we can I don't know why we'd draw an imaginary red line over how much we can spend on WRs. Would this help the team, yes or no? Were were planning to spend that money elsewhere? It's possible we're planning to roll over the cap space we have into next year to resign Tannehill. That's obviously a bigger priority. On the other hand they might not want to do it because they have that money bookmarked for Mike Pouncey, which would be a mistake. I'm not privy to their plans.

What I do know is that making Brian Hartline a big part of your future plans is a mistake. Once you agree with that... it becomes a question of how you plan to move forward without him.

Speaking of spending a bunch of money on WRs, I don't like Wallace either, by the way. I said that before he was signed. The money he's being paid is outrageous for what he offers. We need to start developing an exit strategy for him, too. Johnson would solidify the short term and allow us to plan for what's coming down the road. I happen to think it's a good idea, but it's certainly not the only way to go.
 
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TheWalrus said:
Hartline is capable. He runs pretty good routes, he works hard, his hands are pretty good. The problem is he offers absolutely nothing after the catch. He is one of the very worst receivers after the catch that I've ever seen... usually he just falls down. Last year was actually one of the better YAC years that he's had for a while, nevertheless his 4.2 average was near the bottom of the league. Because of his lack of strength and body control, he also offers nothing in the red zone, which is why he's had more years where he only caught one touchdown (3) than years where he's caught more than one touchdown (2). Hartline can get you first downs. He can move the chains. But he doesn't make big plays on his own, and he doesn't put the ball in the end zone.

Why don't you think we need more than that?

Hartline is Tannehill's favorite because he's the most consistent receiver on the team. That does not by itself mean he is very good. If you put Andre Johnson on this team, Andre Johnson will become his favorite target. Johnson is also consistent, runs good routes, and catches the ball... and he also can make contested catches and runs well after the catch.
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I'm not saying Andre Johnson isn't better than Hartline...just not worth the risk for the price with a guy on the decline who has been more frequently hobbled with injuries.
 
TheWalrus said:
Can we afford it? I'm not an expert on our cap situation. Southbeach has suggested that we can't, though I haven't looked at the numbers myself.

However if we can I don't know why we'd draw an imaginary red line over how much we can spend on WRs. Would this help the team, yes or no? Were were planning to spend that money elsewhere? It's possible we're planning to roll over the cap space we have into next year to resign Tannehill. That's obviously a bigger priority. On the other hand they might not want to do it because have that money bookmarked for Mike Pouncey, which would be a mistake. I'm not privy to their plans.

What I do know is that making Brian Hartline a big part of your future plans is a mistake. Once you agree with that... it becomes a question of how you plan to move forward without him.

Speaking of spending a bunch of money on WRs, I don't like Wallace either, by the way. I said that before he was signed. The money he's being paid is outrageous for what he offers. We need to start developing an exit strategy for him, too. Johnson would solidify the short term and allow us to plan for what's coming down the road. I happen to think it's a good idea, but it's certainly not the only way to go.
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This is where we`ll have to agree to disagree, You do make valid points. I happen to like Hartline overall, he is what he is, a solid 2 on the right team, reliable and ultimate team guy...Wouldn't mind trading him to fill one of many needs this team has. Just happen to think trading him for better but aging and very expensive receiver would limit us in the future. Now if there would only be 1 year left on AJs contract I`d be singing a very different tune.
 
I would trade hartline for aj in a heartbeat. But that's not even a possible trade. Hartline value is way lower than an Andre Johnson.
 
Hartline was reliable. He dropped quite a few more passes last year. Not enough to make his drop rate bad, but if your hands are closer to average and you're not putting points on the board, you're not doing much to help the team win games.
 
For everyone bitching about Johnson's contracting burdening us in the future, everyone is aware that his deal expires a year earlier than Hartline's, correct? And its not like Hartline isnt making nothing, he has a cap hit of something like just under $8 million a year going forward.

This team has a quarterback on a rookie deal. Teams like the Denver have few problems with their cap despite having a $100 million quarterback on their roster. If we cant afford Andre Johnson, then the problem isnt with his contract its with this front office. We just dont have that much talent on this roster, theres no reason why we should be near the cap limit. If we really are in that bad of shape, the answer isnt to avoid good but expensive players, its to cut the mouthbreathers like Phillip Wheeler.

And absolutely love the oft-repeated excuse for Hartline: hes Tannehill's best target! Somehow i missed people using that same logic when it came to John Jerry. I mean, he was our best guard, so of course we should have kept him!
...or we can simply recognize that being the best at a subpar unit is irrelevant and our focus should be on improving that area of the team.

This team is littered with Brian Hartline's. Which is why we keep ending up with an average record year after year. It never ceases to amaze me how the same people who vehemently defend average players act like theyve been completely blindsided when we finish with an average record.
 
I'd prefer trading Wallace for aj straight across. Too bad we gave him such a big contract nobody wants him.

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