****Tua Tagovailoa super thread****

[mrbunglez]

Difference is Burrow dominated the best teams while Tua only dominated average to poor teams. This years Alabama team has 2 WR going likely top 15 and a LT top 10 with several more propects on day 2. Their back up QB Mac Jones did pretty well after Tua went down so the team still appeared to be really good.

Let’s go another direction with this, maybe just maybe it wasn’t just Tua as the reason why he didn’t dominate. Maybe it’s because that top rated (as people like to call it) O line or receivers didn’t hold up to their end of the bargain by getting separation, blocking at a high capacity, or catching the ball. So to pin that all on the QB is just crazy talk.

 

[dagger151]

There’s a reason why teams like Bama, LSU, Clemson are almost always in the college playoffs. The amount of talent on all of those teams is undeniable. If you think Tua was the only one helped out by his WRs and not say Burrow or Lawrence you must have your blinders on.
The difference with Tua was he changed the way Bama played offense, when he took over for Hurts.

Never said LSU or Clemson didnt have a great team around them as well. Sure, it helps their stats to have good WR and OL with a RB threat, but my point was directed at the competition they played against. Burrow picked apart Clemson and Georgia in the championship games and tore up the rest of the SEC in the regular season. If I recall, Tua was very average against Clemson in the 2019 Championship.

 

[dagger151]

LSU’s team is incredibly talented too. Arguing between which guy played with more/less talent is one of the dumbest arguments I’ve seen

I dont understand why its "dumb". In college football, there is more of a gap between good and great so if you have a bunch of NFL prospects on your team, then yes it makes a difference. The fact is that Burrow and Tua both played with a bunch of future NFL players. Therefore the fact that Burrow dominated the best defenses in the country and Tua was average is telling on how they may play in a league where everyone is great.

 

[Danny]

Wow, this argument is gonna go on for years.........why can't people like both Burrow and Tua? If seems like some of the people like Like Tua just hate on Burrow and vice versa. I like both and would be happy if we can draft one of them. I don't see the need to be so extreme here. We still have 25 days till the draft but I can see this will go on long after the draft and keep in mind that what situation they go to will have a lot to say about who will have a better NFL career.

 

[rent this space]

I dont understand why its "dumb". In college football, there is more of a gap between good and great so if you have a bunch of NFL prospects on your team, then yes it makes a difference. The fact is that Burrow and Tua both played with a bunch of future NFL players. Therefore the fact that Burrow dominated the best defenses in the country and Tua was average is telling on how they may play in a league where everyone is great.

That could be a tell, although most QBs become average(or worse) against great defenses. That’s why they’re great defenses. And it’s not like he was bad, just not dominant.
Also, we’ve always heard ”beware of the one-year wonder” Average would be a good way to describe Burrow in 2018

 

[Fin-Loco]

Would you give it to Herbert, Mr. Loco?

No. I wouldn't even give #14 to Herbert.

 

[Fin-Loco]

Wow, this argument is gonna go on for years.........why can't people like both Burrow and Tua? If seems like some of the people like Like Tua just hate on Burrow and vice versa. I like both and would be happy if we can draft one of them. I don't see the need to be so extreme here. We still have 25 days till the draft but I can see this will go on long after the draft and keep in mind that what situation they go to will have a lot to say about who will have a better NFL career.

I like them both and want the Dolphins to go get whichever one they believe can be THE guy and whatever it takes to do it.

 

[Cheetah]

That could be a tell, although most QBs become average(or worse) against great defenses. That’s why they’re great defenses. And it’s not like he was bad, just not dominant.
Also, we’ve always heard ”beware of the one-year wonder” Average would be a good way to describe Burrow in 2018

I don’t have it in front of me but LSU was 10-3 and he was lighting it up at the end of the season. I mean part of his career was wasted in an Urban Meyer attack that he wasn’t suited for. It was his home state school. He finally got what was afforded Tua and that is an offense that played to his strengths.
Burrow was not stopped by a single D this year. Shredded the #1 and #3 scoring defense. Tua has shown to be very average when not feasting on the lower end of the schedule. its all out there. It doesn’t matter I hope we get one or the other but if your pulling out the word average. That also fits Tua when truly tested.

I am kind of shocked it hasn’t been brought up more how well Mac Jones plays when Tua is out. Bama will be #1 or #2 next year WITHOUT Tua. Mac Jones will put up great numbers without Jeudy, Ruggs, Wills, etc... I mean does that not give you pause?

I just want what will help my team but I am no longer enamored with any one QB. They all have question marks. Period.

 

[Phinatic8u]

I don’t have it in front of me but LSU was 10-3 and he was lighting it up at the end of the season. I mean part of his career was wasted in an Urban Meyer attack that he wasn’t suited for. It was his home state school. He finally got what was afforded Tua and that is an offense that played to his strengths.
Burrow was not stopped by a single D this year. Shredded the #1 and #3 scoring defense. Tua has shown to be very average when not feasting on the lower end of the schedule. its all out there. It doesn’t matter I hope we get one or the other but if your pulling out the word average. That also fits Tua when truly tested.

I am kind of shocked it hasn’t been brought up more how well Mac Jones plays when Tua is out. Bama will be #1 or #2 next year WITHOUT Tua. Mac Jones will put up great numbers without Jeudy, Ruggs, Wills, etc... I mean does that not give you pause?

He didn't light anything up at any point of 2018.

He was god awful until the bowl game against USF.

His 2018 season was why he was an undrafted prospect going into 2019.

 

[djphinfan]

Its a combination of talent at both QB and WR. These WR have to get open and many of the Alabama WR have a 10 yard cushion for Tua to throw to. Not discounting Tua puts it where it needs to be, but its not hard for many QBs to throw to wide open receivers. Tua's deep ball leaves a lot to be desired too. Look, nobody is arguing that he is a good QB, I just feel a lot of the stats are overblown against weak competition.

I have seen enough tight window throws by Tua to not be Alarmed that his tape is only throwing 7 on 7 style..

joe burrows receivers are really great as well..just because Jamar chase isn’t coming out, he was still on the field.

I don’t see the concern on his deep ball accuracy..ive heard that it is by some pundits, not scouts..

PFF to back that topic up has him ranked 9th on throws over 30 I’m pretty sure..

Lastly, some of that seperation your seeing from Tuas receivers is cause by hi level traits of eye manipulation, shoulder deeks, and the speed for which he physically and mentally plays the position..combine all that with the fastest release in the college game what he brings to the table creates and capitalizes on seperation.

 

[Aqua Marino (UK)]

Wow, this argument is gonna go on for years.........why can't people like both Burrow and Tua? If seems like some of the people like Like Tua just hate on Burrow and vice versa. I like both and would be happy if we can draft one of them. I don't see the need to be so extreme here. We still have 25 days till the draft but I can see this will go on long after the draft and keep in mind that what situation they go to will have a lot to say about who will have a better NFL career.

I’d be happy for either as well. They each have their own strengths and weaknesses but it’s clear they are the best 2 QB’s in the draft.

What will kill me is if Tua is there at 5 and we opt for Herbert. If that happens I suspect there will be fan videos reminiscent of those of Giants fans when they took Daniel Jones.

The stripping of talent and haul of draft picks has to be worth it. If we miss on a franchise QB this draft if will set us back another 5 years no doubt.

Don’t let us down Chris Grier.

 

[djphinfan]

Never said LSU or Clemson didnt have a great team around them as well. Sure, it helps their stats to have good WR and OL with a RB threat, but my point was directed at the competition they played against. Burrow picked apart Clemson and Georgia in the championship games and tore up the rest of the SEC in the regular season. If I recall, Tua was very average against Clemson in the 2019 Championship.

imo, your taking a very small sample size without using any context of that sample..

I saw enough from Tua in that Clemson game to come away without taking him down a notch in anything.

 

[dagger151]

Take any of Burrow, Tua, or Herbert at #5 if they are there. Just dont trade any of the 1st round picks to move up to do so. They are all potentially better than what we have currently.

 

[dagger151]

I don’t have it in front of me but LSU was 10-3 and he was lighting it up at the end of the season. I mean part of his career was wasted in an Urban Meyer attack that he wasn’t suited for. It was his home state school. He finally got what was afforded Tua and that is an offense that played to his strengths.
Burrow was not stopped by a single D this year. Shredded the #1 and #3 scoring defense. Tua has shown to be very average when not feasting on the lower end of the schedule. its all out there. It doesn’t matter I hope we get one or the other but if your pulling out the word average. That also fits Tua when truly tested.

I am kind of shocked it hasn’t been brought up more how well Mac Jones plays when Tua is out. Bama will be #1 or #2 next year WITHOUT Tua. Mac Jones will put up great numbers without Jeudy, Ruggs, Wills, etc... I mean does that not give you pause?

I just want what will help my team but I am no longer enamored with any one QB. They all have question marks. Period.

Yes, Mac Jones against Auburn, who was one of the top defenses in the country, threw for 335 yds and 4 TD's and Alabama scored 45 points. In fact they actually scored more points in one half against Auburn than any other team did in a game that season...all without Tua.

 

[FSU Truth]

I don’t have it in front of me but LSU was 10-3 and he was lighting it up at the end of the season. I mean part of his career was wasted in an Urban Meyer attack that he wasn’t suited for. It was his home state school. He finally got what was afforded Tua and that is an offense that played to his strengths.
Burrow was not stopped by a single D this year. Shredded the #1 and #3 scoring defense. Tua has shown to be very average when not feasting on the lower end of the schedule. its all out there. It doesn’t matter I hope we get one or the other but if your pulling out the word average. That also fits Tua when truly tested.

I am kind of shocked it hasn’t been brought up more how well Mac Jones plays when Tua is out. Bama will be #1 or #2 next year WITHOUT Tua. Mac Jones will put up great numbers without Jeudy, Ruggs, Wills, etc... I mean does that not give you pause?

I just want what will help my team but I am no longer enamored with any one QB. They all have question marks. Period.

Burrow did not light it up at the end of his senior/jr season (you know his 4th year in college). He did play better but was still pretty average play..so yes, he looked super against Rice and Arkansas. As far as feasting on lower talent teams..he never played the 4th quarter....and he dropped 4tds and only one int against LSU...at about 80%. He did this while in his 3rd year of college. Joe Burrow remembers that years as the year he was 3rd string to Barrett and Haskins. Think about where any of the young college QBs would be if they had 3 years of development, maturing, and college-level coaching before they started. Burrow was in his 5th year of college when he put up that amazing season, but most guys who are good enough to do that are in the NFL by that time.

The year after Watson left, Clemson played again in the national title with Kelley Bryant.

What does it matter? College teams change so fast because players are there only a few years, rapid development, incoming freshman, staff changes...all this impacts a team. Mac Jones was also a highly rated recruit, so he is most likely pretty damn good as well.