Tua's Next. Be prepared. | Page 127 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Tua's Next. Be prepared.

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Mach2 said:
I'm not talking about cap #. Sure you can kick the can if you want, but that is almost assuredly going to end up in dead money sooner or later if a team is on the hook for 200m+ in guarantees.

If you don't care, I get it. Many don't, but don't act like there isn't ultimately a price to pay later.

I said when the terms of the Lawrence contract came out. If Tua wants that exact same deal, call a courier and get the papers signed before he changes his mind.

My sense is he's looking for substantially more.
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the subject was the cost over next 3 years. If you want to look at the years after that, fine, but it wasn't the argument.
Also, I look at cap number because that is what affects the team and its ability to operate. yes, he gets $100 million+ when he signs but it's spread out over several years on the cap.
At any rate I don't usually worry 4-5 years later because the numbers down the road rarely happen the way they were originally written.
 
rent this space said:
the subject was the cost over next 3 years. If you want to look at the years after that, fine, but it wasn't the argument.
Also, I look at cap number because that is what affects the team and its ability to operate. yes, he gets $100 million+ when he signs but it's spread out over several years on the cap.
At any rate I don't usually worry 4-5 years later because the numbers down the road rarely happen the way they were originally written.
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Basically, you like back loaded contracts.

I do not.
 
Mach2 said:
But how do you know what you are terming obviously "bad contracts" is any more than just your opinion. Teams certainly aren't seeing it that way, Cleveland notwithstanding.

Isn't it apparent to you that the league, as a whole, disagrees with your position?

Is it a lot of money? Absolutely. Is it some huge increase in terms of cap percentage? Not really.
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A few off the top of my head would be Murray, Watson, & Daniel Jones. I'm pretty sure their teams see them as bad contracts right now. Geno Smith? Again by YOUR criteria these are not top 10 QBs. The Russell Wilson deal was a disaster but that's done now. If we revisit this post a year from now, I'm sure I'll be able to add a couple more.

Isn't it apparent to you that market adjustments such as these take time to develop? Do you watch a bull rush in the stock market, buy late, and then keep expecting to exponentially increase like it was or do you expect a pullback at some point?
 
Sticky Gloves said:
A few off the top of my head would be Murray, Watson, & Daniel Jones. I'm pretty sure their teams see them as bad contracts right now. Again by YOUR criteria these are not top 10 QBs. The Russell Wilson deal was a disaster but that's done now. If we revisit this post a year from now, I'm sure I'll be able to add a couple more.

Isn't it apparent to you that market adjustments such as these take time to develop? Do you watch a bull rush in the stock market, buy late, and then keep expecting to exponentially increase like it was or do you expect a pullback at some point?
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This isn't the stock market.

Overall dollar value (salary cap) is guaranteed to increase year after year for the foreseeable future (barring any Covid type factor).

That was a false equivalency.

Beyond that, you can pull your investment out of the stock market and sit on liquidity.

That is not an option for NFL teams.
 
Mach2 said:
This isn't the stock market.

Overall dollar value (salary cap) is guaranteed to increase year after year for the foreseeable future (barring any Covid type factor).

That was a false equivalency.
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Investments are investments.

The QB market is increasing much more than any other position. So no, it's not a false equivalency. Just because the cap increases, it doesn't mean the QB position will continue to take the largest part of that pie at the rate it has been.
 
Sticky Gloves said:
A few off the top of my head would be Murray, Watson, & Daniel Jones. I'm pretty sure their teams see them as bad contracts right now. Geno Smith? Again by YOUR criteria these are not top 10 QBs. The Russell Wilson deal was a disaster but that's done now. If we revisit this post a year from now, I'm sure I'll be able to add a couple more.

Isn't it apparent to you that market adjustments such as these take time to develop? Do you watch a bull rush in the stock market, buy late, and then keep expecting to exponentially increase like it was or do you expect a pullback at some point?
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I can't make heads or tails of this discussion but I do have a 12 year old nephew you can't stop from pulling back.

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Sticky Gloves said:
A few off the top of my head would be Murray, Watson, & Daniel Jones. I'm pretty sure their teams see them as bad contracts right now. Geno Smith? Again by YOUR criteria these are not top 10 QBs. The Russell Wilson deal was a disaster but that's done now. If we revisit this post a year from now, I'm sure I'll be able to add a couple more.

Isn't it apparent to you that market adjustments such as these take time to develop? Do you watch a bull rush in the stock market, buy late, and then keep expecting to exponentially increase like it was or do you expect a pullback at some point?
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That's not a few, those are the only 3 out of the top 15 highest-paid QBs that one can objectively say look like bad contracts right now. That's 20%. The other 12 are top NFL QBs and on playoff-caliber if not championship-caliber teams except for perhaps Kirk Cousins, we'll see how that one plays out.

Once Tua, Love, and Purdy sign new contracts, like 90% of the best teams will have QBs in the top 16-18 highest paid.
 
Sticky Gloves said:
Investments are investments.

The QB market is increasing much more than any other position. So no, it's not a false equivalency. Just because the cap increases, it doesn't mean the QB position will continue to take the largest part of that pie at the rate it has been.
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Have it your way.

How long is this "reset" going to take? What do you recommend we do in the meantime? Aspire to mediocrity until there is a correction that may take years, if at all, based on your weakly supported theory?
 
Mach2 said:
Have it your way.

How long is this "reset" going to take? What do you recommend we do in the meantime? Aspire to mediocrity until there is a correction that may take years, if at all, based on your weakly supported theory?
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Sure man. It's all theory:
From 2018 to 2023, the NFL’s highest-paid quarterback saw their APY increase a total of 64 percent, while the NFL’s salary cap increased just 26.5 percent.

And it’s not just the top of the market that has benefitted. The tenth-highest QB salary in 2018, Joe Flacco’s $22 million, covered 12.4 percent of the cap. In 2023, Josh Allen’s $43 million ranked 10th, but still covered 19.1 percent (which is more than Rodgers, the highest-paid QB, took up in 2018).
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What the hell are you talking about? Aspire to mediocrity? What? The last six Super Bowls featured quarterbacks on cheap rookie deals.

As for the Dolphins, they should roll with Tua on his option. Things should be pretty clear at the end of the season whether he's worth that contract or you need to draft/trade for someone.
 
Sticky Gloves said:
Sure man. It's all theory:


What the hell are you talking about? Aspire to mediocrity? What? The last six Super Bowls featured quarterbacks on cheap rookie deals.

As for the Dolphins, they should roll with Tua on his option. Things should be pretty clear at the end of the season whether he's worth that contract or you need to draft/trade for someone.
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But I thought you said none of these guys are worth the contract?

I'm confused. Are we talking about overall league philosophy, or are we rationalizing not giving Tua a contract?
 
It's funny Houston traded all their picks to the Dolphins, completely failed to go anywhere, rebuilt, but yet the Texans STILL won a playoff game before the Dolphins did.

And yet some of you still can't wrap your head around a rebuild/soft rebuild with drafting another QB.
 
Mach2 said:
But I thought you said none of these guys are worth the contract?

I'm confused. Are we talking about overall league philosophy, or are we rationalizing not giving Tua a contract?
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I never said none. I'm saying mediocre to bad players aren't worth these contracts. The overall market is getting inflated. Goff was basically a throw-in for the Stafford trade, and he's now the 3rd highest paid QB in the NFL?? Let's guess how that contract ages.
 
Sticky Gloves said:
I never said none. I'm saying mediocre to bad players aren't worth these contracts. The overall market is getting inflated. Goff was basically a throw-in for the Stafford trade, and he's now the 3rd highest paid QB in the NFL?? Let's guess how that contract ages.
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Let me ask you this. You have probably said before but I don't recall.

Where do you rank Tua? Top 5? Top 10?
 
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