Very tough call facing Miami Dolphins as the DeVonta Smith/Ja’Marr Chase debate rages

[rafael]

Yeah I get all that and agree .... except I don't believe WR is our biggest need... I'm more in the Parsons camp .... I believe @ 18 we can either move up (not a fan) or address the WR ....

at 3 I want to see a player that impacts every down and though a WR does draw attention and that does help the run game as well as the short game it doesn't move the needle for me more than an every down play maker @ LB or edge ... hell even a tackle may move the needle more for me at 3 in a vacuum where everything is level ...

I had Parsons in my initial top 4 for Miami (Sewell, Smith, Chase and Parsons) in terms of just talent, but reality is that he has been a a crap team mate in both HS and college. He's specifically been named as a bully in the lawsuit against Penn State and nobody has denied the allegations. I don't believe it's a reasonable expectation to think that he'll become a better person when he has millions in the bank. The personality risk is huge. And as much as I respect Flores to keep things under control, I understand that "keeping things under control" could easily involve getting rid of the problem. I don't want to use our top 3 pick on a guy we may have to get rid of b/c he's such an asshole. The other options are as good or better so there is no need to take on the risk.

 

[TheRevoltingBlob]

I realize the OL was still bad, but you cant expect to start as many rookies as they did and have instant success, adding yet another rookie in the mix really isnt going to be a quick fix either... Let the guys you drafted get some playing time and see what you really have. Furthermore, I dont see picking Smith or Chase as worst value than picking Sewell. After the Fins drafted Jackson last year, they'd basically be using #3 for a RT, its not good value.

What I mean is if you draft 2 tackles with #3 and 18# in back to back years, one of them is inevitably a RT. I realize that the best case scenario here is trading down, but if it isnt available, Sewell/Smith/Chase are basically the same value overall and the WRs will bring more impact on the Fins specifically. Im not arguing against you because I know we're on the same page, just elaborating on my position.

Def basically on the same page. I'd also be extremely happy w a slight trade down to a QB hungry team, unless we are in love w a guy at 3. I personally think the difference between the non-QB prospects in that range is pretty slim, and worth adding more capital.

I'd like believe internal growth from our 3 rooks is enough to get us to average line play. Just not sure about that one. Maybe I am being biased bc I did not like the AJax pick at all. I know he has potential. But we can't have a bottom 10 line again this year.

And obviously picking Sewell would be completely dependent on whether one can play RT. But with a lefty QB, RT is the LT of our team.

And I don't even disagree w what ur saying about how much we've put into the line. But the results are what matter here. I will obv give u that the Oline has a much better chance at becoming acceptable solely thru internal growth compared to WR. Not really a question there.

We also can't have anything close to the complete mess we had a WR last year. Fully on same page there 100%. I'd also like to think Preston coming back can give us some boost there, but we can't count on him. Sad bc he looked to be getting healthy and Tua seemed to be developing some chemistry w him right when he got hurt.

Bottom line is I don't care how we go about it. But I want both average line and WR play on offense. We have the cap and picks to make it happen. If we don't hit both those marks, we have failed to give Tua a legitimate shot to prove himself IMO.

 

[SF Dolphin Fan]

While I would prefer Smith, I think it's a winner either way.

 

[dolfan91]

Lots of thoughts in the article on both players- the one from Reid about ‘chase needing a qb that throws a lot of faith balls to him’

I honestly think for Tua- Smith would be the better pairing.

I agree. Chase is not a fit for Tua. Any Alabama reciever would be a better option. That includes those on other teams around the league.

 

[Zounds]

He was the Biletnikoff award winner for THE best WR in college football... at 19 years old.

That guy? That's the guy you think won't translate to the NFL?

Are you an Alabama fan?

The Biletnikoff award is a bad way to project a college player as NFL elite. Go look at the award winners and get back to me.

Again, being college elite doesn’t often translate to NFL elite, especially for the skill positions. I don’t care about awards, stats, hype, etc. and I didn’t get my scouting degree from YouTube university. Just watch the guy play and tell me if you see that would be successfull against NFL defenses.

 

[Feverdream]

The Biletnikoff award is a bad way to project a college player as NFL elite. Go look at the award winners and get back to me.

Again, being college elite doesn’t often translate to NFL elite, especially for the skill positions. I don’t care about awards, stats, hype, etc. and I didn’t get my scouting degree from YouTube university. Just watch the guy play and tell me if you see that would be successfull against NFL defenses.

All of that just to deny you are rooting for the Bama kid.

Sigh

 

[YorkshirePhin]

You watch them take Waddle now haha

 

[Kyndig]

Definitely agree we have to rebuild the WR group ... I just can't see it starting @ #3 ....

Tua is "supposed" to be a QB with a rare talent ... with a full camp and another 6-7 months to continue rehab and get his comfort level where it needs to be he SHOULD be able to make the players around him better (if not we need to consider moving on IMO) ... yes he probably needs a WR who can separate a bit more but he has to show he is a play maker too ... you can put all the WR and TE studs you want but if your QB can't take advantage of it you're pi$$ing in the wind ....

If you have a QB that has shown (at least) flashes of greatness then it's an easier sell for me but Tua hasn't YET proven to be that guy ... however a stud LBer or edge doesn't need another player to consistently "be there" for him ... he wrecks game plans and blows up games regardless (Ray Lewis, Luke Kuechly) .... that is the drink I would rather see stirred at 3

Not sure there is a pass rusher in this draft who is that disruptor who would be worth a top 10 pick in this draft, certainly not top 5. An argument can be made that this year Either Smith, Chase, or Sewell would be the best players in this draft (I also would put Pitts in there) not named Trevor Lawrence.

 

[Mach2]

Why are we talking about playmakers? According to some people all we need to do is draft a LT at 3 and all our problems are over.

Come on bro. Litterally nobody thinks that.

Just because I philosophically don't like WR @3, doesn't mean I dismiss the importance of getting much higher level play from the skill positions.

 

[Danny]

Come on bro. Litterally nobody thinks that.

Just because I philosophically don't like WR @3, doesn't mean I dismiss the importance of getting much higher level play from the skill positions.

I was just messing around. There are some people here who sounds as if we'll never win another game unless we go corn at 3 tho.

 

[AdamD13]

I glance back at history and see the Lions did the draft a superstar WR in the first .... I think back to back years .... and it didn't really move the needle for them IIRC .... not really feeling a WR @ 3 given the current state of our team

Of course it is a team game and the QB affects the outcome more than any other position; however WRs do move the needle.

Detroit has only had 2, 10 win seasons (one was 11) in the past 25 years and both were when they had Megatron playing.

The impact Moss had on both the Vikings and Patriots could not be overstated. He turned a below average QB into an all-pro (Culpepper) and the Patriots into the most prolific offense all time.

Rice‘s impact on the 49ers winning Super Bowls, Green’s impact on the Bengals repeatedly making the playoffs were significant.

The biggest reason to take a chance on drafting for a possible elite WR is the effect it will have on Tua’s development.

No single player at any position moves the needle like the QB position, but an elite WR can move it as much as a player at any other position.

 

[Crump]

fit sounds great when guys aren’t really freaks etc. you think Calvin Johnson had to worry about fit or a Julio jones? Aj green for that matter?

the hell they did.

well lets see. u quoted 2 wr's with gunslinger style qbs.

u want to move on from tua then chase is my guy, if we had herbert or burrow, chase is my guy. right now we have a qb that tries to play super safe. who gives a **** if chase can win 90% of 50/50 balls. if your QB doesnt believe in letting his man go up and get it, its NOT A FIT.

if you draft chase, you have to hope tua says **** it and lets it rip. elsewhise your gonna have a guy with a high ypc, but no where near tops recs or yards.

the elite talent would still be there, just not utlized.

 

[Mach2]

I was just messing around. There are some people here who sounds as if we'll never win another game unless we go corn at 3 tho.

I agree, there are more than a few who's minds are closed to any course except their specific scenario.

I can see the merits of a few different paths. Sewell @3 is, as @NBP81 put it, not optimal, but it also isn't as ridiculous as some purport.

I mean if Sewell is even close to being the monster as advertised, he and Jackson would make a hell of a pair of bookends, would they not? It would also allow Hunt to move inside where many, including myself, believe his ceiling is higher.

On the other hand, I could see the line as currently constructed being the base of a more than competent unit, given the development of the young guys.

In the end, the most likely course is a trade down, a WR selection, and added picks. Seems like the most sensible thing to me.

 

[Mach2]

Of course it is a team game and the QB affects the outcome more than any other position; however WRs do move the needle.

Detroit has only had 2, 10 win seasons (one was 11) in the past 25 years and both were when they had Megatron playing.

The impact Moss had on both the Vikings and Patriots could not be overstated. He turned a below average QB into an all-pro (Culpepper) and the Patriots into the most prolific offense all time.

Rice‘s impact on the 49ers winning Super Bowls, Green’s impact on the Bengals repeatedly making the playoffs were significant.

The biggest reason to take a chance on drafting for a possible elite WR is the effect it will have on Tua’s development.

No single player at any position moves the needle like the QB position, but an elite WR can move it as much as a player at any other position.

I can't help but notice two of your three examples were physical "chimeras" (the mythical Greek definition), and Rice is widely seen as the GOAT.

I understand your point, but it's a huge chasm of a leap to put any of these receiver prospects in such a discussion.

 

[AdamD13]

I can't help but notice two of your three examples were physical "chimeras" (the mythical Greek definition), and Rice is widely seen as the GOAT.

I understand your point, but it's a huge chasm of a leap to put any of these receiver prospects in such a discussion.

I used Calvin Johnson, Green, Moss and Rice. There are many more examples.

To say I can’t use them as examples would be like someone arguing the QB does not have an impact any more than any other position.

Then when I use Brady and Montana as examples to point out the impact the QB position does have, then person argues they can’t be used as examples because they were all time greats or the GOATS.

I stand by my examples. If someone else wants to pretend they don’t apply, okay.