Would You Be Upset If We Go Cb 1st Round? | Page 5 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Would You Be Upset If We Go Cb 1st Round?

ckparrothead said:
What people don't fully grasp is that Miami is going from being a defense that plays BASE (4 DBs) on 40% of downs and then NICKEL (5 DBs) on the other 60% of downs, to being a defense that is only going to play BASE maybe 10-20% of downs, will play DIME (6 DBs) on 30% of downs, and will even play QUARTER (7 DBs) on 5-10% of downs.

It's like going from an offense that exclusively uses 12- and 21-personnel (2 WRs), to being an exclusive 11-personnel (3 WRs) offense.

Welcome to modern NFL defense.

Miami never, and I do mean *never* put SIX defensive backs on the field last year, but maybe once or twice. Now they're going to have to put six on the field a large amount of time, and then even put SEVEN on the field sometimes.

And do you think they're going to just say, "Ooops, guess we can't use Dime or Quarter today" every other week just because a DB happens to be hurt? No.

So how deep do you need to be in the secondary to do this? Answer, REAL ****ING DEEP.

And yet, if we're to assume T.J. McDonald and Reshad Jones are to be ditched, later if not sooner, then we have how many DBs on roster that are actually worth a damn? Three? Xavien Howard, Minkah Fitzpatrick, and Bobby McCain, and that's it.

So you're god damned right I would be drafting secondary players. As many of them as I can. Emphasis on safeties since I would actually continue to use Minkah at corner.
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I think CK nailed the essence of what people are missing about our new defensive approach.

In years past people typically played 4 DB's and alignment discussions tended to revolve around how to deploy 7 men up front as DL and LB. This created the very popular terminology for the 34 or 43 defenses that had dominated the NFL for most of our lives. But … the rules changed, and the game is adapting. The whole idea of a "base" defense that had 4 DB's and 7 up front is no longer accurate. Coach Flores' defense swaps out one LB who is poor at coverage (take your pick, all of our LB's are poor in coverage!), and replaces him with a DB who is better at coverage. Then it uses both a 4 and a 3 man front interchanging personnel to keep the offense less aware of what they're doing.

One of the reasons the Dolphins were so poor on defense the last few years is that we used a heavy dose of lineups that had more people close to the line of scrimmage and fewer in coverage, meaning we couldn't risk playing quite as tight in coverage all over the field. That system depends on generating superior pressure on the QB … and we were not accomplishing it, so QB's picked apart our thin but well playing secondary.

This new defense is multiple in its fronts, which is a great thing for disguising what you're doing and for being flexible enough to handle many things … and people get that. But the term "base" is either wrong or has lost its meaning, because we will seldom play with 7 men up front any more. This defense is a switch that parallels the NFL trends to drop more people into coverage, and it is aligned with why so many teams are using LB's that are more like hybrid S/LB's than the old school thumpers.

Teams now want guys who are incredibly fast, and are willing to accept 30 pounds less muscle, 3" less height, the loss of almost all stack-and-shed abilities, and strength at the point of attack. It's all being sacrificed for speed, quickness, and coverage ability. This system simply plays more true coverage players--DB's--in those coverage roles, and looks for a front 6 or a front 5 to do everything else. If you notice, the Patriots often played with 3 safeties, because what LB's used to do to control the run game, safeties do to control the passing game, albeit from a much deeper position.

If you follow the evolution of defenses, the 34 allowed the LB's to make plays moving forward. It allowed the LB's to see the play develop and move to the spot of intercepting the ball-carrier and making the play. Safeties are doing the same thing for receivers after the ball is caught. Additionally, they break up and intercept the ball as well. The rule changes have facilitated a passing game for both short and long yardage. This system simply applies those same concepts (e.g. reading the play and reacting to what you see) in an era of primarily passing games.

We need more CB's, that's not a question, that's just a fact. We probably want to move on from the contracts and ages of both Reshad Jones and TJ McDonald, but that dead cap space means we can't move on from both of them and probably will not move on from either this year. But make no mistake about it, we will be adding DB's, and if we get a chance for a Greedy Williams, it is a good pick at 13.

I wouldn't be upset if we picked an elite CB, or Devin White who I view as a truly elite LB, but I fully expect us to draft a DL guy, probably an edge rusher who can play a combo DE/OLB role. From one perspective, we're in a good spot, because we truly need a lot of positions. So, we can take the BPA. But if the right edge rusher is available, I don't think we pass it up. And if not, I imagine we would be open to moving down.
 
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ckparrothead said:
What people don't fully grasp is that Miami is going from being a defense that plays BASE (4 DBs) on 40% of downs and then NICKEL (5 DBs) on the other 60% of downs, to being a defense that is only going to play BASE maybe 10-20% of downs, will play DIME (6 DBs) on 30% of downs, and will even play QUARTER (7 DBs) on 5-10% of downs.

It's like going from an offense that exclusively uses 12- and 21-personnel (2 WRs), to being an exclusive 11-personnel (3 WRs) offense.

Welcome to modern NFL defense.

Miami never, and I do mean *never* put SIX defensive backs on the field last year, but maybe once or twice. Now they're going to have to put six on the field a large amount of time, and then even put SEVEN on the field sometimes.

And do you think they're going to just say, "Ooops, guess we can't use Dime or Quarter today" every other week just because a DB happens to be hurt? No.

So how deep do you need to be in the secondary to do this? Answer, REAL ****ING DEEP.

And yet, if we're to assume T.J. McDonald and Reshad Jones are to be ditched, later if not sooner, then we have how many DBs on roster that are actually worth a damn? Three? Xavien Howard, Minkah Fitzpatrick, and Bobby McCain, and that's it.

So you're god damned right I would be drafting secondary players. As many of them as I can. Emphasis on safeties since I would actually continue to use Minkah at corner.
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And yet, you would be hard pressed to name a CB in NE outside of Stephon Glimore. And they didn't even draft him.
 
ckparrothead said:
Reshad Jones can't stay healthy to save his life. He has nerve damage in one shoulder and a torn labrum (plus other stuff) in the other shoulder. He's expensive as hell and literally, literally walked off the field last year during a game because he was pissed off at a coach. And then started blasting the coaches for using him wrong. His remaining time here is short, if he has any at all.

Until/unless you put in the work I do, you don't really have any business suggesting that I am over thinking something about this team. You can disagree with me all you want and that's fine.
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You do some good work. But let's not act like your opinion is infallible. I remember your takes on Pat White, and "revolutionizing" the QB position.
 
Kingdom Come said:
You have lost your mind. How can it be that the great evaluator has given himself to overthinking everything.

The initial assessment of this team was absolutely correct. The lines, as they are, cannot support a winning team.

If the lines are again ignored it will just be another exercise in futility.

No problem using Minkah as a slot corner, as he was elite in that role, but giving up on Reshad Jones before he has a chance in the new system is absurd.
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His response is telling. He can't see he may be wrong, and instead attacks you.

He does decent work, but he isn't some all knowing power in which you follow off a cliff.
 
Phinatic8u said:
I can name most of them and they all played well this year.
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Yea, their CBs are household names.

I believe their SB win says their scheme and personnel played quite well. And it all starts upfront.
 
Phinatic8u said:
They don't have to be household names...

What does that have to do with anything being asked in this thread???
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My point is....when you have a ALL Pro CB and 2 Safeties like Chung and McCourty....those other JAGS will look viable. Again, in NE scheme, BB doesn't ask you to do things you can't do.

I would say their front 7 sets the tone, as they did in the SB.
 
DolfanDuBbZ~ said:
My point is....when you have a ALL Pro CB and 2 Safeties like Chung and McCourty....those other JAGS will look viable. Again, in NE scheme, BB doesn't ask you to do things you can't do.

I would say their front 7 sets the tone, as they did in the SB.
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Chung isn't even that good...

Sure their front 7 set the tone but it's not what kept the Rams from scoring.
 
If Greedy Williams is there, then I wouldn't be dissapointed. Fitz at safety, X and Williams as boundary riders, McCain and Tank in nickel, that's a fair secondary.
 
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