Eagles tried to trade Brandon Graham and a 2nd round pick for Dion Jordan 2 months ag

[Phishpunk@WCU]

he is a BUST and everyone, INCLUDING THE EAGLES, knows it even if they don't want to admit it.

he will make the ryan leaf pick look like Peyton Manning by comparison.

THAT is why we won't get equivalent value. He was a colossal waste of time as the 3rd pick STRAIGHT UP, much less that we moved UP and gave a pick away to do so for him. This will go down as one of the top 10 WORST draft picks of all time for any team let alone the Dolphins.

you know so little about football it is mind-boggling.

 

[hoops]

And that's why you never trade him. Develop him and make him return on the investment. If not, then stop drafting all together because we're staring to continue the process of replacing draft mistakes with FAs. At some point you have to become better at developing talent or trade all of your draft picks for RFAs and let someone else do the teaching.

the issue isn't development it's a poor scheme fit more than anything...and it's why the eagles are trying to acquire him...they know he's miscast here as far as taking advantage of him being an every down player...they know it...most here should know it...

he's plug and play 34 olb for them impact guy 2 point stance all over the field athlete and probably provided they let him attacke the los from a variety of places double digit sack guy...but what he's not is a 43 de every down player...and i don't think he ever will be unless we go to a more wide 9 look with the ends and if you do that you damn well better get some better freaking lbs or there will be red sea wide parting holes in your run d...i mean serious lb upgrades

 

[royalshank]

I'm glad we didn't do this. He can be an impact player and we simply do not have enough impact players on either side of the ball. He was disruptive at times in the limited action he saw last year. Jason Taylor showed flashes his rookie year but he didn't have mind-boggling stats - he played in 13 games and had 5.0 sacks. It wasn't until 2000 that he really went into "beast mode". But all along, he made enough plays from '97-'99 (one year he only had 2.5 sacks, another 14.5 during that span) for us to know he was special. Jordan showed enough im my opinion to suggest he will be a difference maker - which is why Philly tried to trade for him. Unless their sending over McCoy you don't do this trade. Playmaker for potential playmaker - OK. Anything else - no.

 

[hoops]

i will tell ya this too...jordans value unless he puts up sacks this year as a 43 de for us is gonna go down in trade...even with a team like the eagles...if he throws out a 5 sack season even if he is an ideal fit 34 olb trade option you won't be able to leverage the eagles or anyone else who knows what he'd be for them like you can right now...

so either you strike now or you sit and hope you get a minimum 8 sack return on your investment in 2014...and to do that and beat tackles that means he's learned a counter and gets off the snap better...5 sack season and yeah you gonna sell low if you do sell

 

[mnphinfan]

if it's true about more weight gain and over 265 now and he plays the run like he did in 2013 again you can bet your rear end that it will be known then that this guys miscast in a 43...and should be moved to a 34 team for a high return..

that height and thin torso gonna make it hard for him at the poa in the run game...have to beat people with lateral quickness and hand use more than stand guys up and keep an arm free etc and flow laterally down the los...

if you think this is an ideal 43 de fit well you're nuts...it's not

let's just hope the pass rush can offset and we can get more return...he needs more lead in the pencil to handle the run in a 43...but he's always gonna have some issues with leverage given that length gives guys a large target to get up underneath...i knew that 6 ft 6 plus on that frame was gonna be an issue in a 43 at de...

every down player right now in a 34...that's the ideal fit

I don't know hoops. I think this coaching staff is gonna find plenty of use for him. I remembered him playing multiple positions last year but when those articles came out a few weeks ago about where he actually played I was really surprised at the amount of positions he played and that he actually did pretty well in his responsibilities. I really think that with his talent to play multiple positions and move around on every snap that down the road he might be a defensive player that an OC might have to actually game plan for. I know those are lofty expectations but after seeing what he could do in the short amount of playing time he did get I can tell there is a lot more "meat on the bone" than what we saw last year. If I was a DC I would be salivating at what kind of blitz's and schemes I could come up with that involve him.

The kid played DE, NT, DT, and LB and is a weapon that can rush from anywhere on the field. He just needs to better develop his counter move. With the fluidness in his hips, the length of his arms and his improving ability to hand fight IMO this will come sooner than later.

He has also showed that he can be stout against the run. Will this ever be a strong suit, doubtful, but I think it will get better as he ages.

I also love his ability to cover the slot and TE's. He does a lot for the defense in that he always will have to be recognized as a pass rush potential, but unlike any other players he legitimately can drop off into coverage and do a damn good job. He is also going to be huge in covering Gronk/TE's. I think he will literally be able to turn the tides in our games against the Pats because he will force Tom Brady to go to other players in the red zone/critical situations.

I just see so much potential and use for him in any defense that if this DC can't put him in places to help this defense succeed this offseason the DC needs to go.

 

[dlockz]

I'm glad we didn't do this. He can be an impact player and we simply do not have enough impact players on either side of the ball. He was disruptive at times in the limited action he saw last year. Jason Taylor showed flashes his rookie year but he didn't have mind-boggling stats - he played in 13 games and had 5.0 sacks. It wasn't until 2000 that he really went into "beast mode". But all along, he made enough plays from '97-'99 (one year he only had 2.5 sacks, another 14.5 during that span) for us to know he was special. Jordan showed enough im my opinion to suggest he will be a difference maker - which is why Philly tried to trade for him. Unless their sending over McCoy you don't do this trade. Playmaker for potential playmaker - OK. Anything else - no.

Teams don't trade playmakers for a possible playmaker.

 

[whizafriz]

he is a BUST and everyone, INCLUDING THE EAGLES, knows it even if they don't want to admit it.

he will make the ryan leaf pick look like Peyton Manning by comparison.

THAT is why we won't get equivalent value. He was a colossal waste of time as the 3rd pick STRAIGHT UP, much less that we moved UP and gave a pick away to do so for him. This will go down as one of the top 10 WORST draft picks of all time for any team let alone the Dolphins.

lol he's a good player with a ton of potential. how is that a waste of time? You make it sound like he's Jonathan Martin.

 

[hoops]

I don't know hoops. I think this coaching staff is gonna find plenty of use for him. I remembered him playing multiple positions last year but when those articles came out a few weeks ago about where he actually played I was really surprised at the amount of positions he played and that he actually did pretty well in his responsibilities. I really think that with his talent to play multiple positions and move around on every snap that down the road he might be a defensive player that an OC might have to actually game plan for. I know those are lofty expectations but after seeing what he could do in the short amount of playing time he did get I can tell there is a lot more "meat on the bone" than what we saw last year. If I was a DC I would be salivating at what kind of blitz's and schemes I could come up with that involve him.

The kid played DE, NT, DT, and LB and is a weapon that can rush from anywhere on the field. He just needs to better develop his counter move. With the fluidness in his hips, the length of his arms and his improving ability to hand fight IMO this will come sooner than later.

He has also showed that he can be stout against the run. Will this ever be a strong suit, doubtful, but I think it will get better as he ages.

I also love his ability to cover the slot and TE's. He does a lot for the defense in that he always will have to be recognized as a pass rush potential, but unlike any other players he legitimately can drop off into coverage and do a damn good job. He is also going to be huge in covering Gronk/TE's. I think he will literally be able to turn the tides in our games against the Pats because he will force Tom Brady to go to other players in the red zone/critical situations.

I just see so much potential and use for him in any defense that if this DC can't put him in places to help this defense succeed this offseason the DC needs to go.

all those things are great and feathers in his cap but at the end of the day in a 43 as a de if he doesnt sack the qb it's not gonna matter...you dont move up into the top 5 in trade for a guy that one doesnt play every down cause he can't handle it and 2 plays a premium pass rush position but doesn't sack the qb

in a 43 he's got to beat tackles consistently...or they got to move him around more and take advantage of that athleticism...even then though get the qb down or you never get your return on the pick...

right now he's pretty much a situational rusher...ok fine...but 2 freaking sacks as that...wtf...it's not ok...and he didnt show he was stout against the run frankly...he put out on tape for the entire league to see that he's a liability vs the run at this stage...a target at the poa

my real concern here is cause of our scheme we will never get the real bang for the buck with jordan we would in a 34...from a pure pass rush stand point and vs the run...you could get by more with him in the run game as a 34 olb than you can as a 43 de...in a 34 you got 5 techs that can help keep him clean and allow his cod and movement skills which are freak level make plays

 

[MRojas4]

**** it.

I'm calling up Coyle, switcing to a Hybrid D.

 

[Ruckus45]

That wasn't even a real offer- that was garbage. If I wasn't familiar with some of the lunacy on this site I'd be surprised some of you think it would have been a good deal.

 

[mnphinfan]

all those things are great and feathers in his cap but at the end of the day in a 43 as a de if he doesnt sack the qb it's not gonna matter...you dont move up into the top 5 in trade for a guy that one doesnt play every down cause he can't handle it and 2 plays a premium pass rush position but doesn't sack the qb

in a 43 he's got to beat tackles consistently...or they got to move him around more and take advantage of that athleticism...even then though get the qb down or you never get your return on the pick...

right now he's pretty much a situational rusher...ok fine...but 2 freaking sacks as that...wtf...it's not ok...and he didnt show he was stout against the run frankly...he put out on tape for the entire league to see that he's a liability vs the run at this stage...a target at the poa

my real concern here is cause of our scheme we will never get the real bang for the buck with jordan we would in a 34...from a pure pass rush stand point

I agree that he needs to be able to play more than situational snaps at RDE but it's going to be hard to find a spot for him with the way OV has been playing. In all actuality I think Jordan will be the replacement for Wake. Who based on last year, showed he can no longer recover as quickly when injured and is possibly showing the first signs of getting a little long in the tooth. However, in the mean time this coaching staff needs to use him as much as possible and in whatever capacity possible. Be it DE, DT, or LB just get his ass on the field. He's to talented not to be.

The crazy thing to me is that this brings up another great argument, BPA vs. Need. People always scream that they want the FO to draft the best player available no matter what and now that this coaching staff, based on reports of how they felt about Jordan in the pre-draft meeting last year, does exactly that on a developmental player where the sky in the limit and tons of people are bitching about it. You just can't make **** like that up.

 

[hoops]

I agree that he needs to be able to play more than situational snaps at RDE but it's going to be hard to find a spot for him with the way OV has been playing. In all actuality I think Jordan will be the replacement in the end for Wake. However, in the mean time this coaching staff needs to use him as much as possible and in whatever capacity possible. Be it DE, DT, or LB just get his ass on the field. He's to talented not to be.

The crazy thing to me is that this brings up another great argument, BPA vs. Need. People always screams that they want the FO to draft the best player available no matter what and now that this coaching staff, based on reports of what they felt about Jordan in the pre-draft meeting last year, does exactly that on a developmental player where the sky in the limit and tons of people are bitching about it. You just can't make **** like that up.

i get that need to get him on the field and find snaps for him...but you wouldn't have to come up with different ways or reasons to get those snaps out of him right now in a 34...you'd be getting every down return on your trade up into the top 5 pick investment and bang for your rookie salary thru the what would amount to then a dirt cheap first contract

and philly knows that...

 

[mnphinfan]

i get that need to get him on the field and find snaps for him...but you wouldn't have to come up with different ways or reasons to get those snaps out of him right now in a 34...you'd be getting every down return on your trade up into the top 5 pick investment and bang for your rookie salary thru the what would amount to then a dirt cheap first contract

and philly knows that...

I totally agree, but he's in Miami and isn't likely to go anywhere soon so that means the DC needs to come up with the best available option. Which to me is finding places/special schemes/packages that allow you as a DC to use his multiple skills to the fullest of your advantage. Having Jordan on the roster should be a huge positive, not a negative "where are we gonna find a spot for this guy" situation. That comes downs to coaching.

Speaking of coaching it's going to be real interesting to see how/if Lazor uses formation changes and motion in his offense to create mismatches unlike Sherman. However, if the Fins don't use these again than in my mind that will have been Philbin's call/offensive philosophy and then it will more than likely IMO be time for him to go. Because if you can't take advantage of talent/scheme mismatches as a coaching staff, than what kind of coaching staff are you?

 

[hoops]

I totally agree, but he's in Miami and isn't likely to go anywhere soon so that means the DC needs to come up with the best available option. Which to me is finding places/special schemes/packages that allow you as a DC to use his multiple skills to the fullest of your advantage. Having Jordan on the roster should be a huge positive, not a negative "where are we gonna find a spot for this guy" situation. That comes downs to coaching.

Speaking of coaching it's going to be real interesting to see how/if Lazor uses formation changes and motion in his offense to create mismatches unlike Sherman. However, if the Fins don't use these again than in my mind that will have been Philbin's call/offensive philosophy and then it will more than likely IMO be time for him to go. Because if you can't take advantage of talent/scheme mismatches as a coaching staff, than what kind of coaching staff are you?

i would expect the use of late motion with the tight ends at least will be a part of lazors package...not just for mismatch opportuinities but to confuse the defense about responsibilities and in turn create blown assignments...and hopefully some wide open looks early in the progression

 

[MIAMI_GUNNZZ]

I happen to think Jordan is soon to be the next Jason Taylor. Only time will tell. It's too early to call it either way. As for the eagles wanting him. Let's not forget he played for chip Kelly at Oregon. That's why they want him.


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