Fat Hank: "People were laughing at AJ Feeley."

[Ozzy]

This is what I was referring to. We've gotten lots of camp reports. Usually several per session. And Hank's secondhand account seems to fly in the face of what we've heard.

I'm wondering if maybe 126 had his windows down when hank said "Feeley" and maybe it was Fiedler?

:D

 

[juniorseau55]

Are you suggesting that Hank isn't in any condition to talk about AJ because Hank can't do what AJ also didn't do? If so, I'm not sure you want to establish that as the standard of review.

Did I misinterpret what you were saying?

You just can't expect the guy to absorb so much information. You guys dont have an idea of what goes on inthe nfl as a quarterback now a days. Jay Fiedler may absorb this faster because he's a smart guy however the playbook is so hard to understand. Long complex plays, quarterback needs to know what he is running and how to pronounce that call 100 percent accurate. Its like the saying goes, you don't grow overnight.

 

[juniorseau55]

And if Kerry Collins comes in and misses as many passes would you then be as concerned about missing practice passes in a new offensive system? I know I wouldn't be.

However Kerry Collins is not a better QB than any of QB's on the roster right now. Check out his career stats. He's just more expensive and more beat up.

Oliver...

Kerry Collins has a belt of playoff wins and championship game apperances. Including to the nfc championship twice with teams that were rebuilding and to the Super Bowl. Jay Fielder? AJ Feeley? nothing more than back ups.

 

[Jimmy James]

That didn't have anything to do with what I thought you were going for, so I think I just misinterpreted you. I agree that learning the system is going to take time, and that's why I'm glad we got him early instead of pulling another Griese later in the offseason. AJ has as much time as he needs in my book -- I disavow any and all attempts to judge him based on a camp and a qb school.

 

[juniorseau55]

Section126, have you ever played pro ball? No you haven't. So for you to say you would never throw 11 incomplete passes is just dumb. You have played "little" ball in your life and you say you wouldn't throw 11 incompletions when facing the likes of Sam Madison, Pat Surtian, Zach Thomas etc. Especially when it is a new system? Get real

You made a clear point. Let section play with his private parts.

 

[Jimmy James]

Kerry Collins has a belt of playoff wins and championship game apperances. Including to the nfc championship twice with teams that were rebuilding and to the Super Bowl. Jay Fielder? AJ Feeley? nothing more than back ups.

Wait -- are you saying that outcome matters more than stats do? I thought that the negatives about Jay revolved around the stats mattering more than the outcome. How do you reconcile this?

 

[juniorseau55]

I repectfully disagree, Fielder's overall numbers are better than Collins, particularly in accuracy (completion percentage) and YPA. But you can see a little give-and-take on the issue here, and some of the following posts.

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showpost.php?p=497542&postcount=18

I do think it's way too early to get upset about any player's performance in Mini-Camp or QB School. This is where they start working, not necessarily when then stop. You can worry more about injuries and attitude, than about results at this point. You have to give people time to learn the system, work together, and come together as a unit. It's great to have a little action-oriented football news again, but it's easy to let it get blown out of proportion and take it too seriously.

It makes me so angry when someone who has seen collins play as much as I can count three fingers smirks shakes his head up and down and bring up a stat sheet. I don't need to repeat myself but he has racked playoff wins, gone to a championship game 3 times. Nfc twice and the super bowl. Jay Fiedler has yet to get out of the first round and when he goes to the playoffs he chokes and gets manhandled like a broken walnut.

 

[ohall]

It makes me so angry when someone who has seen collins play as much as I can count three fingers smirks shakes his head up and down and bring up a stat sheet. I don't need to repeat myself but he has racked playoff wins, gone to a championship game 3 times. Nfc twice and the super bowl. Jay Fiedler has yet to get out of the first round and when he goes to the playoffs he chokes and gets manhandled like a broken walnut.

Damn Collins did all that by himself?

I agree Collins has played at a high lvel, however those days are long gone.

Oliver...

 

[juniorseau55]

Wait -- are you saying that outcome matters more than stats do? I thought that the negatives about Jay revolved around the stats mattering more than the outcome. How do you reconcile this?

Well James I'm afraid that you need to see Collins throwing Rockets Down the Field with Accuracy. He is a tough player that tries to do too much to make something happen like Fiedler. However Collins is a more gifted passer and can put the ball where the receiver can catch it. He has thrown more int than td's but as a quarterback he has been succesful enough to go to these games. IF you want to talks about stats and outcomes how about you leave stats after the game and the outcomes during the present game. However I did not bring this subject but I rather brought Colllins name and the success that he has had in the post-season. Wins that he was a main part of.

 

[juniorseau55]

He kinda Reminds me a bit of Kenny Stabler. Kenny was tough on the field and took oakland to glory. He had the arm but his problem was that he didnt educate himself and did too much on the field. Took huge hits and if his stats were a bit higher he would no doubt reach the hall of fame.

 

[juniorseau55]

Damn Collins did all that by himself?

I agree Collins has played at a high lvel, however those days are long gone.

Oliver...

Also he has Racked up those wins in fashionable matter. Fiedlers starter record means nothing to me cause it is clearly evident that Jay would not have had such a starter record if they defense wouldn't win us some games.

 

[Jimmy James]

Well James I'm afraid that you need to see Collins throwing Rockets Down the Field with Accuracy.

You know who else threw rockets like that? Ryan Leaf.

What I see here is a sliding scale that appears to make stats important when they're convenient and wins important when they're convenient supported by "if you saw him play" or "we have a good D" as a rationale for why the scale changes. Personally, I'll take the wins over the stats any time. It really is nice to have both, though.

 

[juniorseau55]

You know who else threw rockets like that? Ryan Leaf.

What I see here is a sliding scale that appears to make stats important when they're convenient and wins important when they're convenient supported by "if you saw him play" or "we have a good D" as a rationale for why the scale changes. Personally, I'll take the wins over the stats any time. It really is nice to have both, though.

Ryan Leaf never found success in the nfl. Collins can start with another team and bring his veteran leadership and learn a system fast. Collins as I repeated has a good playoff record with two different teams and has played in championship games that Ryan Leaf saw while he was watching tv. I agree with you on the wins, you don't need to put exxagerate numbers but however he has turned his intensity when the games are on the line. He had a poor offensive line last year and the giants defense did not do anything great to stop drives when they counted. He's a top qb when the situation on the team is stable.

 

[Jimmy James]

I'll give you this much -- it is heartening to see that Collins had 3 good years the three years he had a defense that rivals the Miami D to back him up. I'm sure the analysis isn't quite that simple, but it does make him look more like Brian Griese than like say Ryan Leaf. :tongue:

I'd really like to know where you get that Collins can quickly learn the O, though? His New Orleans and NYG first season numbers don't appear to bear that claim out at all. Can you cite anything to support this contention?

 

[juniorseau55]

I'll give you this much -- it is heartening to see that Collins had 3 good years the three years he had a defense that rivals the Miami D to back him up. I'm sure the analysis isn't quite that simple, but it does make him look more like Brian Griese than like say Ryan Leaf. :tongue:

I'd really like to know where you get that Collins can quickly learn the O, though? His New Orleans and NYG first season numbers don't appear to bear that claim out at all. Can you cite anything to support this contention?

came in to the giants in 99 and took them to the Superbowl in 2000 :). With A similar roster that under the last qb played in.