hoops scoops...round 3 disaster...

[Digital]

Everything you said is the TRUTH.

Ireland really regresses at certain points in every draft -- a kind of panic sets in and he reverts to bad form.

It's like a player who trains and trains to avoid bad, ingrained habits, but when the heat turns up and crunch time hits, he reverts to bad form.

Ireland left way better talent out there w. boneheaded moves in the third, imo. Maybe the 4th round will be better, since he has a night to sleep on this debacle...

LD

Good point. Let's hope the 4th round is better. There are still players out there that have the ability to become starters and reliable situational players.

 

[damanref10]

It's funny to me that someone assumes just because a person isn't an NFL general manager, they can't evaluate talent and make informed decisions on whether or not they think a player is good or bad. Any time you are talking about evaluation rather than instruction or task performance, the only qualifications that really matter are: possessing a sufficient amount of observation, understanding of the criteria being evaluated, and some degree of intelligence.

Like any evaluator, hoops can exaggerate at times if he has strong feelings about a guy one way or another, but to say that it's too hard for him to make a reasonable evaluation of a player he has watched because his business card doesn't say "NFL Scout" or "NFL General Manager" is comical.

Assuming that you (or someone else) can't do a thing because you don't get paid to do a thing leads you to a place where curiosity, growth, and self-improvement end.

Wish the thanks button was back.

There are sites that track the accuracy of how the "experts" predicted in their mock drafts compared to the actual draft... sites that (subjectively) rate the accuracy of draft picks panned out ect ect... want to know the one absolute truth? that the experts all have RADICALLY different views. One thing I know about Hoops, if you want to call him out.... step up to the plate. He will put up his board against anyone else's and for all to see and we can have it posted on here for all to see and evaluate later.

If he's wrong, he'll own up to it. Aint no shame in being wrong, especially in a subject so volatile as is the NFL draft evaluation process. But I'm seeing a ton of people jumping down peoples throats, not just Hoops, because they either don't conform to what main stream media evaluations have been spewing out or because they arent favorable to the Dolphins.. sack up fellas. You dont like an opinion, argue against it, trust me he won't take it personally.

But good god, the argument that because people arent getting paid to do something means they dont know what they are talking about theory.... pure comedic gold

 

[Digital]

Help me out here, who was the prototypical red zone threat in Green Bay?

Honestly, I'd kinda like one too. It's clear that Philbin does not covet large receivers, though, and he's gotten results without them in the past.

Well I can give you the name of 4 guys that had deep speed on that team, and 3 guys catching TD's that were over 6'2 and a TE that can both block and catch (although his blocking isn't great, it's much better than Keller's) and the name of a decent LT they had. But you're right, they didn't really have a huge size mismatch red zone threat. Still, they had every other category.

 

[TheWalrus]

I just went and watched all five of Dallas Thomas' game cut ups on YouTube. Hadn't watched anything before that. Barely knew who he was.

I like him. He doesn't flash, but he's very solid and I think will make a very solid NFL lineman. He's very smooth and very aware. I really like his awareness on stunts and games up front, though Florida is so active it got to him at times. He can combo block and then reach a defender very well, which stems from his above average solid footwork. Maintains proper knee bend and technique.

The negatives, such as they are, are just a lack of anything outstanding. The only truly exceptional aspect of his game are his run blocking angles. His are pretty much perfect, especially on second level blocks. The running back slides in right behind him and there's nothing for the defender to do. As an athlete I think he's okay. He's not a plodder; his feet are quick and active, especially his first few steps. But he's hardly Pouncey or Jonathan Cooper, leading a running back 20 yards downfield. His power is somewhat inconsistent. If he doesn't time his block well, he doesn't have the huge natural power to overwhelm someone and can get stoned or just sort of bounce off or get shed.

The main question seems to be: can he play left tackle in the NFL? I honestly don't know. Having relatively short arms will hurt him. One of the cutups on YouTube is his game against Alabama in 2011 where he played left tackle the entire game, often lining up against future 2nd round pick Courtney Upshaw. I think he does quite well, actually. But Upshaw is the kind of solid, powerful DE Thomas would do well against. He's no threat at all on an outside rush. Apparently he did very well against JaDaveon Clowney at LT in 2011, as well, but as that video isn't on YouTube I can't verify that claim. Clowney's stat line in 2011 does show him only making one tackle and one assist and no sacks against Tennessee.

Clowney did only have eight sacks that year, however. He had 13 this year.

 

[TheWalrus]

FWIW I watched a ton of stuff on Jamar Taylor and Will Davis before the draft. I have hand written reports on about 15 corners, actually, which is a ridiculous thing to do but I wanted to watch a bunch of them and knew it would get all scrambled in my head.

Here they are:

JAMAR TAYLOR:

Late to react. Not confident/decisive in reads. Has closing speed, and needs it. Hits w/authority. Physical. Better in man? Blitzes well. Good timing. Forces fumbles. Inconsistent effort vs. run.

Boise plays a ton of zone but I think Taylor plays much better in man, as his gifts are primarily physical rather than mental. This concerns me, as Boise players are usually the other way around. If they couldn't get his mental game up, maybe it'll never get it. It's something to watch.

WILL DAVIS:

Competes. Feisty. Teams challenge him deep. Will give up separation deep but can close. Looks back for the ball too soon and slows down. Mediocre click and close. Up and down against Quinton Patton. Allowed two long completions, two short ones, before prevent defense kicked in. Can be fooled by double moves. Avg zone awareness. More of a man corner. High backpedal.

As Utah State is hardly LSU, I thought it was very concerning how often teams seemed willing to challenge Davis. They weren't scared by him at all. His high PBU number is a reflection of this rather than his skill, imo. Hoops brings up the Senior Bowl practices, which I watched after the fact (was indisposed that week and didn't watch it live). I know the reports on him from that are very bad but I didn't pay attention to him specifically, having already written him off. I might have to go back and watch again.

 

[Miamifin23]

Face it.. 99% of america has no idea who will davis is... ill give the kid a chance, but this proves my point. You have a very good LT to be had for a second round pick and you do not pull the trigger.

 

[xXwarXx]

Will Davis is a project cb with the tools. If you judge him only by his tape you'll get a bad vision of him. What you need to realize is he's incredible agile, turns his hips great, and naturally has an ability to stick with WRs. IMO we over drafted him, but I also understand it. The cornerbacks who do what he does with his ability are pretty much gone, so they made sure they got there guy before it was to late.

Patterson, grimes, and Marshall, could all also be gone next year, and Mia wanted to bring in two CBs not only for depth and to compete, but also to develop. And Davis has the kind of tools worth developing, along with Coyle who seems very good at coaching talent up.

You have to look at the big picture with a pick like Davis.

 

[TheWalrus]

Will Davis is a project cb with the tools. If you judge him only by his tape you'll get a bad vision of him. What you need to realize is he's incredible agile, turns his hips great, and naturally has an ability to stick with WRs. IMO we over drafted him, but I also understand it. The cornerbacks who do what he does with his ability are pretty much gone, so they made sure they got there guy before it was to late.

Patterson, grimes, and Marshall, could all also be gone next year, and Mia wanted to bring in two CBs not only for depth and to compete, but also to develop. And Davis has the kind of tools worth developing, along with Coyle who seems very good at coaching talent up.

You have to look at the big picture with a pick like Davis.

True. You certainly wouldn't want to watch him play football to judge how good he is at playing football.

 

[steviey013]

I would bet 500 dollars straight up that Kevin Coyle endorsed the pick of Will Davis. I will go with his opinion on the player for now...

 

[X-Pacolypse]

It was definitely a meh kind of 3rd round. I'm hopeful that Thomas and Davis turn out to be productive players for Miami. I would like this trend of blown 2nd and 3rd round picks to stop at some point.

 

[Valandui]

I'm sorry but if anybody here actually thinks they can evaluate prospects better than pro scouts, then you're off your rocker. Just because you watch college football and talk crap on a fan forum doesn't make you a scout or good at evaluating prospects. With that said people seriously don't say stupid **** like that, if you don't like the pick then that's fine but to act like you're better at scouting than the pros that do this for a living and to make a bold statement such as saying the guys we drafted will fail is premature and utterly retarded, reserve your judgements until they actually complete an NFL season because other than not knowing who they are you have no way of knowing that they will fail.

Because I'm sure that Jeff Ireland being related to former NFL front office personnell had nothing to do with his getting hired.

 

[cltchperf]

So essentially, of the 5 picks in the first three rounds, we ended up spending all but #77 on defense and the solitary offensive guy we selected doesn't fill any of the gaping holes we have at LT, TE or Slot? We strike gold with a franchise QB, and two years running now Ireland fails to draft any help for him?

So we break the bank for Wallace and he's got to be McGuyver with a 1-dimensional TE, no slot receiver, no red zone threats whatsoever, and no 2nd deep threat? No WR or TE over 6'2 and only 1 guy (Wallace) who has sub-4.5 speed? Oh yeah, and we let the two leading TD scorers (Bush and Fasano) go? We also let go of our good LT without any replacement?


I'm confused ... do we understand the concept of building around a young QB? Our decisions suggest we do not.

whhy do you need a second deep threat? hartline will get open from the coverage wallace gets and the way wallace will stretch the field. More weapons are a luxry at this point. Slot Wrs can be filled easier than no1 WRs. We have that and a good compliment and agood tightend. Blocking TEs can be had late in the draft too. I think more weapons could help, but miami is fine. Many teams don't have a plethora of speedy WRs and still do good. Look at the broncos offense...who other than demarious was a speedster? But eric decker is a good Wr and was a great compliment to Thomas.

 

[Finland]

my point is don't confuse inability to do the job ie scout prospects with lack of opportunity to do so...it's not an easy thing to break into...and given i love the dolphins so much i would want to do it for them...

but i don't doubt that if i did get an opportunity i would stick...that's just my opinion obviously but i'm very confident that if i did it for a living and devoted myself to it full time i would stay employed...

Since we're sitting here looking at this stuff, how old are you, and what do you do for a living now?

 

[Regulus]

Not landing Armstead leaves a bad taste in my mouth. A specimen like that doesn't come along often. Getting Dallas Thomas as a consolation prize makes it sting a little more.

 

[xXwarXx]

True. You certainly wouldn't want to watch him play football to judge how good he is at playing football.

Learn to read, I clearly said if you judge him ONLY by his tape, meaning you need to consider his measurables, hence where he got drafted where he did.

Do you need a further explanation to understand that comment?