MERGED: Chris Long / Long video
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Please, Chris Long is everything everyone wanted Roth to be. He is 5x the player Roth is. Calling him a Roth clone is complete nonsense. Have you honestly ever seen Long play?
JT-forpresident
Believe In Miami
he had one helluva game, i didnt get to watch it and with this video i'm impressed...but it's only 1 game... watching him beat the Olinemen, the first thing that struck me was how he was in space, his Dcoord ligned him up wide so that he would have space to make his pass rush, and because he's a beast against the run (so even though he is wide, he will be able to shed his blocker and make the tackle in space, very often) .... this kind of player in the NFL cannot make a name for himself as a 3-4 DE , absolutely not. Those Ends in the 3-4 are lined up nose on the Tackle or something on the inside shade, i don't believe Long has the physical tools to play there, not at all.. (from what i've seen..) He would be very interesting at the OLB position but if I had the choice, I may take Gholston over him to fill that position..
In_Flames
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This is of course your opinion and that's fine. I however have watched Long since the beginning of his college days, being from Virginia I get the games. I believe he does in fact have all the tools needed to become a great player in this league. You are basing your knowledge of him on one single game as you said. The guy is a born leader and disruptive force on defense period. I won't comment on Gholston because I have only seen a few games, but I will say Chris is ranked the top player at his position going into this draft for a reason, and IMO is most definitely worthy of being drafted #1 overall.
excerpt from scouting report:
a few (of many) quotes regarding Long:
Good God you must have watched it on the wrong speed if you think Long is slow. Do you think the quarterbacks waited on him for those 14 sacks in the season?
Make no mistake Long is head and shoulder THE DE in this draft.
JT-forpresident
Believe In Miami
I got your point In Flames, but you didn't mention if you'd rather have him play DE or OLB in our defence... if you think he could succeed as a DE i think you are wrong, but then again i'm only judging based on one game... that being said i believe he could be one very talented OLB...
In_Flames
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Without a doubt I do, and honestly think he would be very successful at both positions...but I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree then. :wink:
btw if you get a chance try and checkout other games of his, and if you still feel the same so be it.
JT-forpresident
Believe In Miami
A DE in a 3-4 ? I don't buy it... without a doubt in a 4-3 though.... do you have any links or is there any possible way to dwl games on internet ? I would find it very interesting
He's been playing DE in a 3-4 for the last few years at Virginia!
JT-forpresident
Believe In Miami
NCAA isn't NFL ... take a close look at Matt Roth... same exact type of guy, maybe less talented, but look at his case, his motor and his energy are just not enough for the NFL ... Long, even though he's much more talented, should be a better fit in a 4-3 or a OLB in a 3-4, I don't want a Roth #2.... especially not with the 1st overrall
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Chris Long has been playing 2-gap defensive end in Virginia's 3-4 defense since the beginning. He got 14 sacks as a 3-4 DE this year.
You can't make judgments about Virginia's scheme based on the Texas Tech game, and it isn't because it's just one game. It is because they were facing Mike Leach's spread system. Mike Leach is an innovator. He is the guy that popularized the spread offensive line formations. JT-forpresident you are only partially correct when you talk about Chris Long lining up in space during the game. There is a reason for that. Mike Leach lines up his offensive lines about 2-2.5 yards off each other. That is EXTREMELY unconventional, way more space than a traditional line that is lined up more or less shoulder-to-shoulder.
Leach's scheme is based on traditional defenses being based on gap theory. Defenses line up according with where offensive players line up. They don't just set themselves up in a set formation based on distance to the quarterback. The 0-technique DL lines up straight ahead on the nose of the Center. In a 4-3, a 1-technique will always line up on the outside shoulder of the Center, a 2-technique straight up on the Guard no matter where he is, a shaded 2-technique on the inside shoulder of the Guard, a 3-technique the outside shoulder of the Guard, a 4-technique face up on the Tackle or shaded 4-technique on the inside shoulder, a 5-technique the outside shoulder of the Tackle, a 6-technique face up on the End (tight end) or shaded to his inside shoulder, a 7-technique on the outside shoulder of the End.
That's how defenses are run, gaps. Mike Leach took that and said well if your defenses are going to line up on my offensive linemen no matter what, I'm going to space out my linemen really far away from the quarterback so that your defensive linemen have to cover a lot more distance to get to my quarterback.
And, if you think you're smart and you say well ok, I'm going to bunch up my defensive linemen toward the inside of your formation anyway and with your OLs spread out so wide it should be easy to get to the quarterback. Well, there's a problem with that. You are now leaving gaps completely uncovered, big burly offensive linemen out on the wings free to run out and block mayhem for receivers or backs on little dinky shotgun scoop screens. You think you're smart rushing three defensive linemen over Center through those big gaps, but the shotgun snap is always going to move faster than your DLs, and the QB is always going to be able to audible right into that dinky WR slip screen and now with your gaps uncovered that big burly tackle is going to be able to release out and put two defenders out of the play just by being big and heavy.
What this spread OL does to a defensive scheme is basically make it look contorted in the way that you observed with all that space that Chris Long had to work with. That, by no means, is a normal sampling for how Virginia does things on defense.
You can't make judgments about Virginia's scheme based on the Texas Tech game, and it isn't because it's just one game. It is because they were facing Mike Leach's spread system. Mike Leach is an innovator. He is the guy that popularized the spread offensive line formations. JT-forpresident you are only partially correct when you talk about Chris Long lining up in space during the game. There is a reason for that. Mike Leach lines up his offensive lines about 2-2.5 yards off each other. That is EXTREMELY unconventional, way more space than a traditional line that is lined up more or less shoulder-to-shoulder.
Leach's scheme is based on traditional defenses being based on gap theory. Defenses line up according with where offensive players line up. They don't just set themselves up in a set formation based on distance to the quarterback. The 0-technique DL lines up straight ahead on the nose of the Center. In a 4-3, a 1-technique will always line up on the outside shoulder of the Center, a 2-technique straight up on the Guard no matter where he is, a shaded 2-technique on the inside shoulder of the Guard, a 3-technique the outside shoulder of the Guard, a 4-technique face up on the Tackle or shaded 4-technique on the inside shoulder, a 5-technique the outside shoulder of the Tackle, a 6-technique face up on the End (tight end) or shaded to his inside shoulder, a 7-technique on the outside shoulder of the End.
That's how defenses are run, gaps. Mike Leach took that and said well if your defenses are going to line up on my offensive linemen no matter what, I'm going to space out my linemen really far away from the quarterback so that your defensive linemen have to cover a lot more distance to get to my quarterback.
And, if you think you're smart and you say well ok, I'm going to bunch up my defensive linemen toward the inside of your formation anyway and with your OLs spread out so wide it should be easy to get to the quarterback. Well, there's a problem with that. You are now leaving gaps completely uncovered, big burly offensive linemen out on the wings free to run out and block mayhem for receivers or backs on little dinky shotgun scoop screens. You think you're smart rushing three defensive linemen over Center through those big gaps, but the shotgun snap is always going to move faster than your DLs, and the QB is always going to be able to audible right into that dinky WR slip screen and now with your gaps uncovered that big burly tackle is going to be able to release out and put two defenders out of the play just by being big and heavy.
What this spread OL does to a defensive scheme is basically make it look contorted in the way that you observed with all that space that Chris Long had to work with. That, by no means, is a normal sampling for how Virginia does things on defense.
ckparrothead
Premium Member
Matt Roth was strictly a 4-3 RDE at Iowa though. He never had 2-gap responsibility.