Are the Dolphins shopping Jake Long?

[CANDolphan]

So you're counting roll over from 2011 -> 2012 as extra roll over to 2013?

Now, call me crazy, but my interpretation of this guideline

The ability of teams to roll over leftover space from the previous year, something that has pushed the available space of some teams to more than $60 million.

Leads me to believe that you can only roll the numbers over from the previous year to the next, and not from the previous TWO years to the next.

If this is something new that I wasn't aware of, I'll gladly admit I was wrong. But, if I'm not, then you're double dipping here. You can't take cap space from our ADJUSTED cap thanks to a rollover from LAST year and apply it to NEXT year.

Edit: Okay Zounds, it appears we are all looking at different numbers. This site typically is the most accurate with regards to cap numbers
http://nyjetscap.com/Dolphins/dolphins2012.php
And it says we have $124.9 million in cap hit this year.

 

[Zounds]

So you're counting roll over from 2011 -> 2012 as extra roll over to 2013?

Now, call me crazy, but my interpretation of this guideline

Leads me to believe that you can only roll the numbers over from the previous year to the next, and not from the previous TWO years to the next.

If this is something new that I wasn't aware of, I'll gladly admit I was wrong.

Yea I dont think you get what "rollover" is. Whatever wasnt used the previous year, can be used the next year. There is no stipulation as to what you cant use as rollover.

There is a stipulation that makes a team spend at least 95% of the adjusted cap number, also known as a "cap floor". This is the incentive against continuously rolling over your cap.

 

[MD]

OK, here some more math for you fellas:

Here is our current cap hit of $115 million. This includes new signings like Gaffney and Armstrong. It also includes dead weight money like Garrad.

http://www.spotrac.com/nfl/miami-dolphins/cap-hit/

Here is our current adjust cap allowance of $130 million, including the $10 million in roll over money from last year:

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2012/10/04/adjusted-per-team-cap-numbers-for-2012/

So with that being said, maybe you brainiacs can figure out what $130 minus 115 million is to find our roll over money?

---------- Post added at 02:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:04 PM ----------



See above post. The count against this years cap, which directly effects roll overm oney to next year.

I believe that info is inaccurate. The Dolphins dead money is 18 mil not 8 mil, nor does it reflect Marshall's dead money which is 5.5 mil.

EDIT I stand corrected on Marshall but these numbers don't add up.

 

[CANDolphan]

Yea I dont think you get what "rollover" is.

I understand what rollover is. Stop being a child and actually discuss this like an adult without insulting or taking jabs.

There is no stipulation as to what you cant use as rollover.

Wrong. Dead wrong.

http://www.fieldgulls.com/2012/7/17/3165014/nfl-salary-cap-team-rankings-rolloever

I had erroneously hoped that a team could keep growing its adjusted salary cap, but alas -- it does reset and the rollover is pegged to the "base" NFL salary cap each year.

He assumed, just like you did, that it forever increases. It doesn't. You can't use $5,000,000 of "empty cap space" from the PREVIOUS roll over into the NEXT YEARs roll over. It does not work that way.

 

[MD]

Yea I dont think you get what "rollover" is. Whatever wasnt used the previous year, can be used the next year. There is no stipulation as to what you cant use as rollover.

There is a stipulation that makes a team spend at least 95% of the adjusted cap number, also known as a "cap floor". This is the incentive against continuously rolling over your cap.

Which puts the Dolphins at about 6-7 mil. There current roster is 105 mil plus the 18 mil in dead space.

 

[finfanaz]

I said over and over in my long post that the numbers were hypothetical, so quit acting like you're breaking down the entire argument with a simple edit. We are operating under realistic assumptions and deductive reasoning. You're arguing hopes and dreams here.

I mean, if you want to sit here and manipulate a TON of variables to achieve the result you want to hear, be my guest, but I subscribe to this economic theory known as "Occam's Razor" which tells us that the scenario with the least amount of variables is most likely one.

There is no result that "I" want to hear. I want what's best for the team, and I'll let Philbin figure out what that is. I'm a fan, I just root for my team and the players on the team. I know that Jake Long has been a great player for this team and I root for him to stay on the team. If Philbin decides our money is better used elsewhere then I'm cool with that.

And I bring up the variables because they in fact exist, you on the other hand are ignoring all of them. Which is why I haven't said one way or another whether he will or will not be resigned, because well, I don't know and I'll never know till' it happens. Same with you..

Edit: If you want I'll agree with your overall premise that It will be hard to resign Jake and keep the other FAs on the team as well.

 

[Zounds]

I understand what rollover is. Stop being a child and actually discuss this like an adult without insulting or taking jabs.

Well you didnt understand what it was. And theres nothing childish in pointing that out :idk:

 

[CANDolphan]

Well you didnt understand what it was. And theres nothing childish in pointing that out :idk:

It's very clear I understand what cap rollover is. It's also very clear you 1) haven't done your research and 2) have no idea what the Dolphins true cap situation is as of this very moment.

 

[MD]

http://nyjetscap.com/Dolphins/dolphins2012.php

 

[Zounds]

I believe that info is inaccurate. The Dolphins dead money is 18 mil not 8 mil, nor does it reflect Marshall's dead money which is 5.5 mil.

It does reflect Brandon Marshalls dead money. It was on the list. And that list says the Dolphins dead money is exactly $18,440,487.00, which is exactly right. Read it again.

 

[CANDolphan]

And I bring up the variables because they in fact exist, you on the other hand are ignoring all of them. Which is why I haven't said one way or another whether he will or will not be resigned, because well, I don't know and I'll never know till' it happens. Same with you..

Edit: If you want I'll agree with your overall premise that It will be hard to resign Jake and keep the other FAs on the team as well.

I'm taking as many variables as I can into account, and I'm even being generous to his assertion. Is it possible we can keep Long? Absolutely. I'm just saying that it'd be incredibly difficult. Yes we CAN ask players to restructure. We CAN ask players for paycuts. We CAN do this, we CAN do that. I'm simply taking into account variables that exist to this very day.

I 100% agree with you nobody knows exactly what will happen. Hell, Jake Long could take a hometown discount ala Paul Soliai and shock all of us (again, like Soliai did. He left 2-3 million a year on the table to stay in Miami!)

It sounds like we are agreeing in some random off way, so I'll apologize if I wasn't being clear.

 

[MD]

It does reflect Brandon Marshalls dead money. It was on the list. And that list says the Dolphins dead money is exactly $18,440,487.00, which is exactly right. Read it again.

I read it wrong. But the 115 includes the rollover from the previous year. The Dolphins are currently at 123 and get 6 mil in rollover next season. Not 15 mil.

 

[CANDolphan]

I read it wrong. But the 115 includes the rollover from the previous year. The Dolphins are currently at 123 and get 6 mil in rollover next season. Not 15 mil.

I don't think he realizes you can't keep rolling cap over like that.

 

[Zounds]

I don't think he realizes you can't keep rolling cap over like that.

Well buddy, you can believe anything you like, but it doesnt make it right. I certainly wont trust a fan site, especially a NY Jets forum to which your pal linked. Anyways, here is the CBA, which trump any fan site you can link: http://images.nflplayers.com/mediaR...eral/2011_Final_CBA_Searchable_Bookmarked.pdf

You can scroll down to page 96 in section (v) of the CBA where it discusses rolling over cap room. It clearly says you can roll over any unsed balace from the prior year. It does not stipulate that you cant roll over certain money like you said. This is the only section of the CBA that mentions roll over cap. There is absolutley nothing in the CBA that says what you are suggesting. Thats all I got for this thread.

 

[TheWalrus]

Unfortunately I don't think there's any chance Ireland lets Jake Long hit free agency, much less trades him. It would be a tacit admission that he screwed up by not take Matt Ryan. He's going to give Long the money he wants then pat himself on the back for resigning his franchise player.

The thing is I don't think there's a team out there who's going to give franchise QB money to a LT in this day and age. With the amount of empty sets and flex TEs teams are playing it's more and more obvious that what you need is two good tackles, not one elite one. And not only that, but good interior pass blockers, too, since teams like the Giants consistently match up their DEs against the weakest interior pass blocker and let them tee off. I think if we let Jake Long hit the open market he'll realize he's ****ing dreaming to think $12 million a year is coming his way. Top this off with the fact that even if you value LTs the way they used to be valued, Long is hardly playing at an elite level right now. It's nonsensical from top to bottom.

I mean, the two teams with the best records in the NFL right now are the Texans and Falcons, right? Can anyone name their LTs right off the top of their head? Thought so.