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Hole too deep?

djphinfan said:
If Grier was in charge the last 3 or 4 years and if he was a good evaluator of talent he wouldn’t of needed the #1 pick and we wouldn’t of needed to rebuild to this degree.

All we have is hope, hope that he didn’t have the power to make the decisions and hope that his two buddies are good evaluators.
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First we “couldn’t believe” Tunsil fell to us. Then we “couldn’t believe” a Minkah fell to us. In between we took this Harris bum. The guys who Grier “couldn’t believe” fell to us are gone. The bum is still here. I get why people have no faith in Grier. The new FO guys need to help him. And what about our scouts? Do we employ the same people forever or do we try to get better there too? Finally, instead of this “can’t believe he fell to us”, perhaps stick to your draft plan cause the other way isn’t working out.
 
laxcoach said:
Other than his ability to trade away assets, what has Grier accomplished? He’s drafted tunsil, Howard, and godchaux. Jury is out on Wilkins, but I am hopeful. Is he handing over drafting to Allen and McKenzie?

Flores has his guys playing hard, and he has been given a crap roster. But I don’t think you can remove the stink of 0-16 if it happens.

So, I am not convinced. And I think that is fair.
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I like Godchaux but he’s an average player / not a star by any means. At least not yet.
 
ANUFan said:
It's going to take almost 4 years to start "winning" in your opinion?

4 offseason periods...4 drafts to start "winning?"
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This will be totally dependent on how well Grier drafts. If they screw it up bad enough, it could be a decade of mediocrity or worse. If they do it right, I suspect a 3 year turnaround is likely. Most rookies struggle their first year, and the ones who are successful their first year often experience a sophomore slump. This leaves year 3 being the turnaround point, but it is not ridiculous to think that it takes three drafts to actually produce enough talent to make a full team impact, which would in fact likely make year 5 the year for playoff contention.

If they hit on QB and successfully fix the defensive and offensive lines in this draft, next year I would add LB and skill positions. I think this would create the quickest chance for turnaround.
 
royalshank said:
I like Godchaux but he’s an average player / not a star by any means. At least not yet.
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Doesn’t that say a lot about who he has drafted?

Let’s not even start with the contract extensions this year.
 
OK folks. Please keep it clean in here and quit complaining about each other. Next one off topic, posts an inappropriate comment or decides to make this thread about other members instead of the topic will be locked out of the thread at the very least.
 
vcip said:
0-7 coach that has the 32nd ranked D ?
That folds after every half?
A team that is not good at anything?
Uses players so badly they want out then perform pretty damn well when away from said coach?

Drake & Minkah had proven much more than this coach so forgive me if I question your opinion
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Your forgiven :)

If I simply looked at the numbers and ignored the context I would agree with you.

1st year coach in which the GM has turned over 70% of the roster including 20% of the roster between final preseason game and week 1.

Out of that 70% was the majority of legitimate NFL starters from a team that wasn't the most talented to begin with...Tunsil, James, Stills, Gore, Wake, Quinn, Alonso, Minkah...name me one other coach that has had to deal with anything remotely close to that and been successful?

In return for losing experienced players he was given a 2nd year QB that had one of the most disastrous seasons in recent history to try out at QB. That of course turned out to be disastrous.

Also, it was obvious the first 4 weeks of the season was going to be a brutal schedule...Ravens, Patriots, Cowboys, Chargers (3 division winners and a 12-4 team from last year) and the youngest team in the NFL has been competitive in the last 3 games. Once Fitzpatrick got installed against the Skins it was clear Miami was better and the Bills and Steelers (game significantly turned when Howard left the game after missing both Skins and Bills games) both clearly have more talent, Miami was on the road and the players showed they haven't given up playing hard which is a reflection of coach Flores.

If you think Walton didn't earn playing time over Drake when he was on the team (dropped the ball on the 2-point attempt to beat the Skins and I wasn't a fan that play-call either) I question whether you've watched the entire season. Walton was flat out better.

As far as Minkah, he was trying to get Flores to fit a system around him rather than being willing to fit into the system being installed. When a player becomes a cancer as a coach is trying to build a culture of "team first" it is imperative to cut out that cancer before it spreads regardless of whether he is a promising young player. In preseason it was clear Minkah was not giving effort on the field and his attitude didn't improve when the season started. Miami/Grier did well to get a 1st round pick for him.

I think some fans are confusing Grier's role with Flores. Grier is tanking in a sense being more than willing to trade talent for picks. Flores is focused on his role which is to coach the players he has available to him.

Being the least penalized team in the NFL is a reflection of the T.N.T. philosophy supported by consequences and that Miami has improved as the season has progressed with the youngest and least overall talented roster is a reflection of a job well done by coach Flores.

I'm looking forward to seeing the team when coach Flores has legitimate NFL talent to work with, assuming Grier is able to acquire talent to fill up the hole up which is hopefully on par, actually better, than his ability to dig a hole.
 
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royalshank said:
First we “couldn’t believe” Tunsil fell to us. Then we “couldn’t believe” a Minkah fell to us. In between we took this Harris bum. The guys who Grier “couldn’t believe” fell to us are gone. The bum is still here. I get why people have no faith in Grier. The new FO guys need to help him. And what about our scouts? Do we employ the same people forever or do we try to get better there too? Finally, instead of this “can’t believe he fell to us”, perhaps stick to your draft plan cause the other way isn’t working out.
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There is no hiding at this point, he Deserves the criticism...there is 0 evidence he’s an above average evaluator..

Positives and hope?, Flores has a background in scouting, Marvin Allen and Reggie McKenzie.

That’s three new perspectives..

I love the team, I’m always gonna love this team, so I can only hope these new elements will help him identify on a above average level.
 
Since so much talk on this thread is about Grier.......... our own Chambers posted an interview he did with Grier on Monday night on the VIP room. Very good interview actually and Grier was very honest on that interview. If you haven't seen it then go see it and if you're not a VIP then I suggest you join cause it's awesome to have the benefit of a poster with real inside info.
 
I'd say the following positions are building blocks for the future:

* DE (maybe Taco)
* DT Godchaux
* DT Wilkins
* LB McMillan
* LB Baker
* CB Xavien

* RB Walton/Ballage (RB doesn't matter, easy to find)
* OT Davis
* OG Dieter (Ya, he's been sub-par so far, but he's a rookie)
* TE Gesicki
* WR Preston Williams
* WR Grant and/or Parker (I know we'd want to upgrade, but just counting one for my analysis)

So, that's basically 5-6 starters on offense and 5-6 starters on defense needed to field a competitive team. Let's say they get 5 starters via the draft (not unreasonable with 6 picks in the top 65) and can sign 3 starting quality FAs (I'd start by overpaying 2 solid OL on 2 year deals), that would only leave them with 3-4 starters who are liabilities next year. They will also have lots of FA money to pay replacement level players on short deals. In the NFL these days a quick rebuild is totally possible.

I see them as a 6-8 win team next year who plays inspired football and finishes strong, with a good chance at the playoffs in two years.
 
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