I would like to hear more opinions of CK and Boomer about our draft plans.

[Lazy1]

Who do you think are the later round sleepers that miami would look at, im guessing we'll take quite a few olinemen on day 2 any names of guys who might fit that bill?

 

[Ludacris]

There's one play in the middle of the second quarter that stands out where Tribble had great coverage o Devin on a pass and it went incomplete. Otherwise, this game is all the Jamie Silva, Matt Ryan, and Kellen Davis show.

Kellen Davis just rushed from a three-man formation over LT on a 2nd & 2, put an inside spin on Gosder Cherilus that left him grasping for air, beat the left guard that tried to duck inside to handle Davis after he'd soundly beaten Cherilus, and then chased Matt Ryan to the sideline forcing an incomplete pass. It was a sick play.

It highlights the real problem with Kellen Davis. He can be whatever you want him to be but he can't be everything at once. Putting him at DE in obvious passing situations is absolutely taking the edge off his abilities as a TE. It is also taking the edge off his abilities as a DE because as I watch him rush I can't help but see a lot of Jason Taylor in him. Obviously he's got top tier speed off the edge for a RDE, but he also has the strength on that long frame, strength you really don't think he should have, and apparently a damn fine spin move.

A perfect example of what I'm talking about. Kellen Davis just played a handful of snaps as a pass rusher before Matt Ryan throws a pick. They come back on offense and on the first play, they call his number on a corner route. Three problems with the play. One, Brian Hoyer never once fooled Jamie Silva, not even for a split second. Two, the throw was a bit late, and a bit ahead of the tight end. Three, Kellen Davis didn't use his body to shield it that well. But, you know what? The guy's just been playing DE for a series and now you're going to go to him on a deep corner the very next play after taking on Gosder Cherilus and the LG on a double-team? I don't get that. Of course he's going to look a bit lax in terms of being physical and shielding the ball.

Kellen Davis is an amazing athlete. I really like him at TE. He reminds me of Jason Taylor too. He has the same tall physique and his face even looks like JT. He can block well-takes good angles, good strength. He catches really well with soft hands, gets high on catches, looks fast. He'll do real well in the NFL.

 

[dlockz]

Ryan v. Beck? I'd much rather hear Ryan v. Brohm. I can't find much of a definable reason that Brohm has fallen into round 2 territory with some people. It's all really vague speculation as far as I can see, though Brohm is certainly better than what he's being ranked at.

That has been suprising, i still think Brohm is worthy of a top 10 pick and would be happy if he ended up a dolphin.

Nobody's stock has taken as much a tumble as Colt Brennan. Brennan was being talked about on this board as worthy of a top 10 pick last year. I know Boomer is a big fan of his. I always thought come draft year he would drop on boards but I do agree he is a good prospect.

 

[adamprez2003]

That has been suprising, i still think Brohm is worthy of a top 10 pick and would be happy if he ended up a dolphin.

Nobody's stock has taken as much a tumble as Colt Brennan. Brennan was being talked about on this board as worthy of a top 10 pick last year. I know Boomer is a big fan of his. I always thought come draft year he would drop on boards but I do agree he is a good prospect.

I wouldnt be surprised if the Ravens take Brohm. He seems perfect for a Cameron system. I think the Patriots will take McKelvin and make the choice easy for Baltimore. If the Patriots take Gholston then who knows. I dont think he gets out of the first though

 

[ckparrothead]

You point out the intriguing aspect of Davis. He's got the gifts to play both but by doing so he cant become great at either. He definitely reminds me a little of JT like you said and I wouldnt be cmpletely surprised if the team that drafts him converts him fulltime to DE. I think its 80% likely he'll be a TE but one never knows. Personally he comes across as great value froma physical point of view in the 3rd or 4th. I would be surprised if he goes 2nd

The problem is playing both in the same game. In the first half you had a compelling route runner, a compelling blocker, a compelling pass catcher, and a compelling pass rusher. But, by the end of the second half all the way through to halfway through the fourth quarter...you didn't see any of those things. Not until MSU's defense made a huge play in the middle of the fourth quarter and Brian Hoyer followed up by taking his head back out of his arse and throwing a beautiful TD on the run, did Kellen Davis really get back into the game...probably just out of pure adrenaline. You show me a player that looks disinterested and stops doing the little things, and 90% of the time I'll show you a player that is too tired to look interested or do the little things. If he stops doing double duty in the same game, he could be really good at either.

 

[adamprez2003]

The problem is playing both in the same game. In the first half you had a compelling route runner, a compelling blocker, a compelling pass catcher, and a compelling pass rusher. But, by the end of the second half all the way through to halfway through the fourth quarter...you didn't see any of those things. Not until MSU's defense made a huge play in the middle of the fourth quarter and Brian Hoyer followed up by taking his head back out of his arse and throwing a beautiful TD on the run, did Kellen Davis really get back into the game...probably just out of pure adrenaline. You show me a player that looks disinterested and stops doing the little things, and 90% of the time I'll show you a player that is too tired to look interested or do the little things. If he stops doing double duty in the same game, he could be really good at either.

I agree and think he'll be one the better value picks on the 2nd day. So far I havent seen him any higher than 3rd

 

[padre31]

You point out the intriguing aspect of Davis. He's got the gifts to play both but by doing so he cant become great at either. He definitely reminds me a little of JT like you said and I wouldnt be cmpletely surprised if the team that drafts him converts him fulltime to DE. I think its 80% likely he'll be a TE but one never knows. Personally he comes across as great value froma physical point of view in the 3rd or 4th. I would be surprised if he goes 2nd

Davis IMO, will not be around for us to draft, there is just too much interest in him by teams that love great athletes.

Kellen Davis just rushed from a three-man formation over LT on a 2nd & 2, put an inside spin on Gosder Cherilus that left him grasping for air, beat the left guard that tried to duck inside to handle Davis after he'd soundly beaten Cherilus, and then chased Matt Ryan to the sideline forcing an incomplete pass. It was a sick play.

Adamprez and myself were chatting live about the BC/MSU game on Celtkin, and the first defensive play of the game, with St Dic suspended, Davis rushed the passer through Gosder, and it was like watching a History Channel program about JT, his action upfield, the speed, the moves, it was JT at 22 yrs old in a green and white uniform rushing the passer.

 

[padre31]

I agree and think he'll be one the better value picks on the 2nd day. So far I havent seen him any higher than 3rd

The problem is, we need a Te and we could use a passrushing LB, but we also may take C Long or Gholston, leaving us needing Te, and he is not a "great" Te prospect, he is tall, and can get seperation, but he is also a bit stiff running his routes and he is not a very intuitive route runner.

For us, he is a platypus, not quite mammal, not quite duck, we need solidity not a question mark early, if we drafted him I would be extremely happy, especially if he was a De/Olb and not a Te.

 

[adamprez2003]

The problem is, we need a Te and we could use a passrushing LB, but we also may take C Long or Gholston, leaving us needing Te, and he is not a "great" Te prospect, he is tall, and can get seperation, but he is also a bit stiff running his routes and he is not a very intuitive route runner.

For us, he is a platypus, not quite mammal, not quite duck, we need solidity not a question mark early, if we drafted him I would be extremely happy, especially if he was a De/Olb and not a Te.

Thats a great way to phrase it. I dont see us drafting him with our 3rd. I think we'll pick up a cornerback like Justin King or Charles Godfrey but I think he could be a possibility with our 4th even as TE. I think whichever way he goes he's still in that raw clay mode where what you see is not what you're going to get two years down the road. I think he could become an amazing red zone target and 3rd down option as a TE. I also think he has some natural skills that would translate into a very intriguing DE/ OLB prospect. He definitely intrigues me and I'll follow his career closely

 

[RUDEbyallMEANS]

CK/Boomer, What are all of your thoughts on DE Kendalll Langford?

I hear him being compared to New Englands' DE's, Seymour/Ty Warren, and he seems to be considered a 2nd-3rd rounder from what I gather.

 

[Ludacris]

Davis IMO, will not be around for us to draft, there is just too much interest in him by teams that love great athletes.



Adamprez and myself were chatting live about the BC/MSU game on Celtkin, and the first defensive play of the game, with St Dic suspended, Davis rushed the passer through Gosder, and it was like watching a History Channel program about JT, his action upfield, the speed, the moves, it was JT at 22 yrs old in a green and white uniform rushing the passer.

I don't think he'll last any further than the 2nd round. As good as an athlete he is, I don't think he'll play DE in the pros. He played TE at the senior bowl which leads me to believe the scouts have him zoned in at that position.

 

[Casas9425]

boomer and ck can you guys sell me on john beck? i have read numerous online scouting reports and opinions of him are very mixed. some say he was a steal others think he will be a career backup. the overall feeling is that he is small at 6'1" and will have durability concerns and will take a few years to develop coming from a shotgun spread. but he also has a rocket arm and makes quick decisions and has a fast release but throws the ball a little low. what do you guys think of him?

 

[padre31]

Thats a great way to phrase it. I dont see us drafting him with our 3rd. I think we'll pick up a cornerback like Justin King or Charles Godfrey but I think he could be a possibility with our 4th even as TE. I think whichever way he goes he's still in that raw clay mode where what you see is not what you're going to get two years down the road. I think he could become an amazing red zone target and 3rd down option as a TE. I also think he has some natural skills that would translate into a very intriguing DE/ OLB prospect. He definitely intrigues me and I'll follow his career closely

But if he is our 4th rd pick, and we need a Te, he won't play De/Olb, if he was a De/Olb, he could part time Te in the Red Zone/First downs, but not the other way around,

JT part timed at Te, but not regularly, so I doubt Davis could do that job, so we have to look at him as a Te only, and he is a mediocre Te.

 

[jdang307]

You should hurry, games almost at halftime :D

Made it for the second half. 4 ales later and a game winning shot, woohoo!

To keep this thread on topic (and not face the wrath of Lord Celtkin!) Casas, I'm not Boomer nor CK, but I'll get you started on Beck. First he's 6'2", but he played a little thin last year, and his low release subjects him to those challenges even smaller qbs face. Does this doom him for failure? No. Word is, he's worked like crazy with qb coach David Lee. So much so, he's stated he already has had more coaching this year than he did all of last year.

At first, I thought, "Inconceivable" but in another thread, I hear how Cameron had Beck run the scout team (being the third qb). Even when Green went down, Cameron and Mueller failed to sign a 3rd qb, so he continued to run the scout team, with only Lemon taking any reps. Could you say, dumb! Then two weeks later Cameron inserts him into the offense HOPING for a spark, chasing any spark for a win.

Cameron really did not know what he was doing last year. As I stated in that other thread, that's similar to a rookie holding out for all of TC and two games in the preseason, signing his contract, getting reps for the last two games (but not playing) and then starting the season opener. Who can succeed in that role? And this is the coach's fault.

All that said, that doesn't guarantee he'll succeed, but it says you shouldn't judge him purely on his performance last year.

 

[Digital]

2. It depends what you see in Jake Long. ... There is a drop off to Baker, but it's not a great one. You have the top line prospects; Otah, Clady, Long, Williams. You have a notch down to guys like Collins, Baker, etc. Duane Brown, Carl Nicks.....all these guys are very solid prospects. Where you teams envisage Branden Albert?

3. There's some talent at MLB in the draft. Reggie Torbor is pencilled in there as well and Torbor can play. He is a very effective blitzer - remember he was a rush end at Auburn - and that inside rush will be critical. We have been keeping close tabs on a number of MLB prospects, so I expect a guy to come in and push for extended PT.

I have a difference of opinion to Boomer on the Jake Long/Baker debate, but maybe not a complete disagreement, as I do agree with what he said "It depends what you see in Jake Long."

I want to be very clear about this though, I'm a big Baker fan and I do think he's a legitimate LT and a solid round 1 prospect that's being underrated by the internet draftniks. But, Long is a different beast.

The skinny on it is that Baker is a solid finesse type LT--like most LT's--that is a very good pass blocker but a good not great run blocker. I think he's going to be an exceptional player. Some are saying Baker needs to play in a zone-blocking scheme, but I disagree, he'll be fine in any system and do well because he's technically exceptional with enough natural talent to win the battles consistently. But, Baker isn't being downgraded because he's a zone-blocker only guy, or because he's not athletic enough to play LT, or not powerful enough to play RT. Baker is sliding because he has an injury history that scares the personnel guys. The talent is there and he's going to be good. I think he's going to prove to be a better pro in the long run than many of the prospects that have people drooling, but aren't nearly as polished (some, not all).

Jake Long is dominant as a run blocker, there's simply nobody in this draft that's in his league. He has superior ability and consistently uses it to its full potential, and that makes him truly scary. I haven't seen a run blocker like him since the old Dallas dynasty under Jimmy Johnson ... even the run-stuffers will be moved. In this case the immovable object will be moved by the irrisistable force (Long). Playing LT and having a quick pulling RG like Smiley sets the Dolphins up to be a devestating running team. Even the top run defenses tend to have speed-rushers playing RDE (4-3) or ROLB (3-4) that can be run on if you can get a strong LT. The problem is that the vast majority of LT's in this league are set up to handle speed rushers in the pass rush, and only a handfull of them are really strong at run blocking.

Take a look at this historic LT draft, Clady isn't a run blocker, Otah is decent but not great, Williams can become that type but he's raw, Nicks can do it but he's raw and has pass pro issues, character issues, etc., Baker isn't a great run blocker ... you can keep going down the list, but the "elite" LT prospects tend to be very strong in pass pro and weak to mediocre in run blocking. Jake Long is truly dominant at run blocking, moreso than the HoF type LT's Ogden, Pace, etc. in their primes.

When you compmare only their pass pro skills, you can get the impression that Baker isn't much of a drop off from Long, but when you factor in the fact that the Dolphins will be rebuilt as a smashmouth running team, you simply must put a premium on run blocking to be successful. You cannot sacrafice your strength, and ours will be running the ball.

Now, when you factor in that Long's wingspan is so huge that it allows him to exceed the limits of his footspeed and footwork, you can understand why so many fast pass rushers in the Big 10 failed to beat him. Joe Thomas was beaten by speed too, but he was good enough at it to make a pro-bowl as a pass pro LT in his rookie season. The guy that beat Thomas never beat Long at LT. With more coaching and practicing against elite speed like Q.Mozes and whomever else Parcells & Co. molds for our OLB's, I think Long will continue to improve at pass pro.

Then there's the consistency factor. Long virtually never got injured or penalized, he's simply a plug-and-play player who earns every paycheck.

Ultimately unless we can trade down somebody is going to get overpaid at #1, I think Long gives us the most value in the Parcells/Sparano/Ireland philosophy of grinding down the other team's defense, protecting yours, eating clock, then converting on the ground with powerful linemen and in the air with tall receiving targets. That protects your defense to shut down the other team and win it in the 4th quarter. The Dolphins might have had 6 wins this season if they could have finished off games. I think Jake Long goes farther towards doing that than any other player in the draft from a Dolphins perspective.

BTW, I agree with Boomer as far as the ILB talent, and I'd be ecstatic if we could land Dan Connor at #32. Of course, if we do that, we're not going to get a LT unless it's in the first round. I don't forsee any of the legit solid LT prospects lasting to #57 or the second day. I'd love to see us draft Chris Long as I'm a longtime UVa fan and a fan of his, but I just think Jake Long is the pick that makes the most sense for us, and if we trade down at all, I'm confident he'll be atop of our draft board. Nobody is going to trade up to #1 to get Jake Long, but 3 years from now, many teams may wish they had.