Kenny Stills INVISIBLE During Training Camp | Page 6 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

Kenny Stills INVISIBLE During Training Camp

The Finster said:
Stills is a poor mans Wallace, he's got speed and not much else, but a good 4th WR to have, but Grant could possibly unseat him as the deep threat because he can be a threat from anywhere, that is of course, if he can take NFL hits.

This will be Stills final year as a Dolphin either way, unless he signs a cheap contract, it's going to be the DVP/Landry/Caroo show moving forward.
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I think that you grossly underestimate Kenny Stills ability. He is set for a very good season.
 
FinfanInBuffalo said:
I think Stills steps out of bounds needlessly way less often than Wallace. There's a difference.... Wallace's absolute unawareness for where he was on the sideline was amazing. Only professional WR I've ever seen make a needless 1 yard step to the side and step a foot out of bounds and have no idea that he did it. The only $60 million WR that desperately needed to basket catch the ball and would run out of bounds to do so. He was also terrible at judging the flight of the ball and adjusting to it. Just terrible. What a frustrating WR on deep passes. Needed perfectly thrown balls to an erratic route runner with top end speed.
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You are right, these are very good points.
 
I wouldn't judge anyone too harshly for under-performing in the predictable offenses we've run in Miami. First we had WR's lining up on the same exact spot all season long with the "go-go" cadence and then a one year reprieve when we sprung a new offense on everyone and then back to predictable with the same WR's running the same routes every week.

Kenny Stills was in the top 3 for catch percentage in 2014 (76%) while running deep routes. (I believe Jarvis Landry was #4) That number dipped big time under the Bill Lazor/Zac Taylor fiasco. He's a guy who still ran deep routes even though our line was unable to block long enough for the route to develop. Mike Wallace was turned into a possession receiver in Miami and only caught 52% of his passes in 2013 and improved to a whopping 58% in 2014 while Landry caught 75% of his passes.

Stills' arrow is still pointing up while Wallace is pointing WAY down and has been for years. He has been working hard to get that money so I would not be surprised to see him have a great year. Especially since he is now in an actual NFL caliber offense again.

He will now play the role that Emmanuel Sanders played in Denver. The same guy who never put up more than 740/6 (in 4 years with Ben Roethlisberger) jumped to 1404/9 in Gase's offense. I don't expect that much from Stills because that was the #1 offense of all time but he will definitely be much better than 2015.
 
Spiff said:
This is just another example of how statistics can be misleading without the proper context: the majority of Stills' targets were long passes which is why he has such a low catch %. His yards per TARGET is still higher than Wallace's yards per target during his time with the Dolphins, not by much though: 7.1 vs 7.0. There is an even greater gap when you compare Stills' yards per catch to Wallace's yards per catch as a Miami Dolphin: 16.3 vs 12.8. This is due to targeting him more on deeper passes.

Not sure that there is a difference between Wallace and Stills on the field. They are basically the same receivers. We just didn't force the ball to Stills that much, even less so the closer we got to the goalline.
There's a huge difference though in their contracts and in their off-field behavior which is why I think we're better off with Stills.
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It's because Stills is nothing in short routes, he can't handle press, and he's not explosive.

People can say we "forced" the ball to Wallace all they want, bottom line, it worked, because he scored TDs, it's not rocket science.
 
The Finster said:
Yeah, and Wallace scored a lot of TDs, so "forcing" the ball to him paid off.

Stills was the 2nd most targeted WR behind Landry, but he only caught a paltry 42% of those targets, 27 rec out of 63 targets.
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He was the second most targeted wide receiver only because Rishard Matthews missed five full games and Devante Parker was basically not used early in the season. Compare targets per pass route run.

Arguing that Stills was a high volume target in our offense is absolute nonsense. He was targeted less frequently than Jordan Cameron, Lamar Miller, Jarvis Landry, Rishard Matthews, and Devante Parker on a per route basis. The only offensive player on the team who got fewer looks than Kenny Stills was Dion Sims, a guy we drafted for his blocking.

What a load of nonsense.
 
The fact is Stills has simply not produced up to expectations. You can make all the excuses you want, and I know you will, but he simply hasn't produced. He didn't produce last year, and he won't produce this year...and next year we can hear all about your excuses for this year...
 
Dr. Phin said:
The fact is Stills has simply not produced up to expectations. You can make all the excuses you want, and I know you will, but he simply hasn't produced. He didn't produce last year, and he won't produce this year...and next year we can hear all about your excuses for this year...
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Sorry, instead of trying to have a discussion based on the facts, I'll defer the floor and let you indulge in some self-masturbatory ranting for a bit.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
Sorry, instead of trying to have a discussion based on the facts, I'll defer the floor and let you indulge in some self-masturbatory ranting for a bit.
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No, please...go back to your excuses for why Stills hasn't produced. Hate to break in for your personal attacks when people don't buy your BS...
 
Dr. Phin said:
The fact is Stills has simply not produced up to expectations. You can make all the excuses you want, and I know you will, but he simply hasn't produced. He didn't produce last year, and he won't produce this year...and next year we can hear all about your excuses for this year...
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What expectations? We traded a 3rd rounder for a complimentary WR....he was never intended to be a 1 or even really a 2. He makes pennies on the dollar based on his rookie contract and add a player with a speed skill set and tracks the ball pretty well.
 
Dr. Phin said:
No, please...go back to your excuses for why Stills hasn't produced. Hate to break in for your personal attacks when people don't buy your BS...
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You were the one who started up with the personal garbage. See: your previous post which adds absolutely nothing to the discussion but does include a couple of potshots in my direction.

If you think that looking at the facts and then discussing them qualifies as 'making excuses,' then I suggest you go check out Twitter. The 140 character limit is probably a lot more conducive to your titty attacks, as well.
 
Here's a crazy idea: You have to give quality to get quality. What if we traded Landry for a top 40 CB? Taking from a position of strength which would leave us no worse than average at the position and saving our secondary from being a dumpster fire.

---------- Post added at 12:53 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:53 PM ----------

Landry was, apparently, only the 98th best player in the league according to NFL Network's Top 100 players per players and coaches opinions.

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Like him or not, Landry's still just a slot-WR, even if he's the best slot-WR. Isn't an A-level CB2 worth as much as the best slot WR?

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I'm not even sure if the Bears have a good enough CB2 but I know they could use Landry.

Plus, Miami has Grant and Drake, when healthy to make plays out of the slot. Now, you're not worried about having to cut a good player because you're out of room on your roster.
 
The NFL top 100 players thing is kind of a joke, IMO.

I'm interested to see how Landry does in a different offense. I think Landry has more ability to play downfield than people give him credit for, and I think the fact that we didn't want to use him for that was a crime.
 
J. David Wannyheimer said:
He was the second most targeted wide receiver only because Rishard Matthews missed five full games and Devante Parker was basically not used early in the season. Compare targets per pass route run.

Arguing that Stills was a high volume target in our offense is absolute nonsense. He was targeted less frequently than Jordan Cameron, Lamar Miller, Jarvis Landry, Rishard Matthews, and Devante Parker on a per route basis. The only offensive player on the team who got fewer looks than Kenny Stills was Dion Sims, a guy we drafted for his blocking.

What a load of nonsense.
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Is there a point in there? What exactly is your point, I never said he was a high volume target, I was just pointing out he wasn't a low volume target, and that he only caught 42% of the balls thrown his way.

Excuses, bottom line, he was the 2nd most targeted WR on the team, regardless of reason, and your reasons are by the way, that other WRs are better, you do realize that right?

Stills is a poor mans Wallace, which is what this is all revolving around, he's an OK 3rd and better 4th WR.
 
Yeah, Mike Wallace was awesome last year.

2 whole touchdowns. So is it that he's a great player, or he's been benefited by QBs who make him look better than he really is?
 
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