Mel Kiper- Jake Long is a Left Tackle

[BlueFin]

Absolutely. Personally I think Miami would get outstanding, outstanding value with Anthony Collins at pick 32. He may well only be a junior, but he looks to me like he could start sooner rather than later and the upside is massive.

Do you like him as well or better than Chris Williams? And do you think Chris Williams will be gone by 32?

 

[fishypete]

Meanwhile back at the point of this thread. Thanks to those who said nice things, but Mel Kiper does this 365 days a year. He's very, very knowledgeable about the thing he does for a living. As for Jake Long, I personally think he's better suited to being a RT because he's outstanding as a run blocker, when the play is in front of him, and because he's so strong, such a mauler. He can be a Jon Runyan, Jon Jansen type. What I do think is that despite a better year in 2007 in pass pro, I still think he struggles to get his feet out from under him at times, I think he's not quick enough to seal the edge and can look cumbersome as a pass blocker, mechanical and I think when consistently pressured by quick rush ends, he tends to get a little waisty and not uses his knees. He also doesn't have a particularly proficient kickslide, especially when put under consistent outside pressure.

If you're spending the first pick on him, you better make sure that you are 100% certain he's going to be a LT.

BUT.......if Jeff Ireland and Tony Sparano think he can play on the left and God knows, they're a million times more qualified to make that judgement, then you have to think he's as likely as the other two.

If the Dolphins were going to be a pass first team I would agree with you...but thats not what Henning and Parcells teams are....they run....and having Jake Long play at LT would not be a mistake....he's a great run blocker...perhaps the best run blocking tackle that has come out in the last couple years. Of course your taking a risk when you have a top 5 pick...every player is a risk to a point.

 

[Boomer]

Your very humble, I think your analysis is spot on in regards to Long.

Kiper , in my opinion, tends to let his draft board blow with the wind, versus what is perhaps his true opinion on the subject, which is my only problem with his ability.

I'm really not humble. I'm just honest. I'm a guy that watches a lot of tapes, knows what I'm looking for and then uses the resources that we all have available to back up my analysis. It's not hard to find out whether a kid has good character, or to check out how he played as a JUCO. And if you know who you're talking to or even who you hope you're talking to, a quick e-mail to the right person, be it a journalist or an area scout at a college or even at a kids' high school will furnish you with all sorts of information. You learn to know what you're looking for in each case. The ability to play left tackle well hasn't changed since I scouted Walter Jones or whomever. You're still looking at the same stuff. Occasionally kids will jump out at you that you don't even watch. Often they're underclassmen and you asterisk next to their name, you research whether they're likely to jump out and then you can return to them when they do. A guy like Darry Beckwith at LSU is like that. Jumps out at you on film.

You watch DB's to see if they can live on an island or whether they're going to play zone. It's not hard to tell. You watch McKelvin as I did against OSU and you know he can play man. You watch Aqib Talib against Kansas State and you know he's more suited to play cover 2. You watch Talib some more and you wonder would he transition to safety? So how does he tackle? Hmmm. He's not Reggie Smith when it comes to tackling. So he might not be a safety. It's easy stuff.

But I have a job and a family and I do this when I can, usually after the family have gone to bed. Most nights after the season I tend to watch a couple of hours tape between about 11 and 1. Sometimes that's not possible, so you catch up when you can.

And as for Mel, I will always defend him to the hilt. As he rightly says, we're at the halfway point in the draft season. I fully expect his board to be a mix and match at the moment. But when you look back at his mid season prospectus, which is my yearly bible, he's pretty damn square on year after year after year.

 

[emocomputerjock]

If the Dolphins were going to be a pass first team I would agree with you...but thats not what Henning and Parcells teams are....they run....and having Jake Long play at LT would not be a mistake....he's a great run blocker...perhaps the best run blocking tackle that has come out in the last couple years. Of course your taking a risk when you have a top 5 pick...every player is a risk to a point.

The LT spot is more of a pass blocking spot.

 

[Boomer]

I had seen somewhere that Collins stock was dropping (I know where but aint gonna say :up:)

I'd be surprised if that was true at this stage.

I kindve like Gosder at the 32 if still there. Whats the comparison between the two?

Gosder is a RT ideally. Collins is big, strong, balanced, with great hands, good knee bend. He needs some work on his feet in pass pro, but it's refining rather than anything. And he's a mauler, with bog long arms who just neutralises rushers with his wings. Gosder is big and powerful, again big wings, a slapper at times. But he's not quick enough as a LT IMO. Sam Baker is another absolute pick 32 diamond.

BTW: Good to see you in a chipper mood this morning Boom

You know, I get SO bored of this nonsense year after year after year.

 

[Boomer]

Do you like him as well or better than Chris Williams? And do you think Chris Williams will be gone by 32?

I think they're right in that mix with Baker in group 2, just behind Otah - who was the best LT I saw this year, Clady - whose drum I was banging 12 months ago on this site and Jake Long.

I think Williams probably will be gone.

 

[Boomer]

If the Dolphins were going to be a pass first team I would agree with you...but thats not what Henning and Parcells teams are....they run....and having Jake Long play at LT would not be a mistake....he's a great run blocker...perhaps the best run blocking tackle that has come out in the last couple years. Of course your taking a risk when you have a top 5 pick...every player is a risk to a point.

For sure. But they're going to pass the ball at some stage. And like I said, the decision is Jeff and Tony's. If they think he's the man, then he's the man.

 

[Ghetti13]

In defense of Boomer, it is quite obvious to me that he breaks down tape and comes to his own conclusions. I know this because he says things that the media has never mentioned but prove true based on what I see when I break down the same player. Those are the people I want to hear from.

Personally, I am not interested in the person who looks at the stats or simply regurgitates what he hears from the media, relying therefore primarily on name calling. That happens quite a bit and it really brings down the quality of conversation around here.

Also, back to Boomer, there is a big difference between saying Miami will draft a player and saying he would draft a player. I do recall him being very high on Cromartie, and I also recall him feeling pretty good that Miami would take Allen. Those are two different things.

Plus, there is little doubt that Boomer has an excellent track record with regards to providing us with inside information. In fact, much of the reason I am on this site is because he and a few others challenge me with ideas and info that are outside of the main stream.

Keep up the good work Boomer.

By the way. Jake Long is highly overrated and Glenn Dorsey could excel as the nose tackle in a Parcells style 3-4 team. In fact, he would be my pick if I were calling the shots.

 

[fishypete]

For sure. But they're going to pass the ball at some stage. And like I said, the decision is Jeff and Tony's. If they think he's the man, then he's the man.

I agree with you Boomer....he's far good enough to play at LT...and it is up to the Dolphins to figure that out.

 

[Motion]

I would like to suggest that everyone stays on topic and not make things personal. Everyone has their own opinions, especially at draft time. Calling out other members for their opinions on past drafts is not necessary. Consider this a friendly warning. :D

 

[Ghetti13]

I would be extremely disappointed if Miami chose to draft Jake Long. I just don't see how they could justify it based on what I have seen when breaking down his game.

 

[dlockz]

I said, based on information gleaned from someone on this forum who really, truly did have an inside scoop until that person was sacked as part of the Parcells purge, that Quinn would be the pick. But I also wrote a long piece stating that if it wasn't Quinn then it would be Ginn based on what he brings to the table and the multiple (4) recorded visits between Miami and he.

The details of the visits were recorded at the time.

Basically what I thought you said. I thought you were probably right on although i never thought Quinn would fall that far and still think that should have been our pick. I was just correcting that u said we were definately taking Ginn because u still thought we were going to take Quinn much like most people that were trying to guess what teams were picking. Both you and Mel were of the same opinion but yet somebody once again takes a crack at Kiper saying that he was a buffoon for thinking we made a mistake in not taking Quinn or that he predicted us to take Ginn. 90 percent or more fans and prognosticators thought we were taking Quinn with that pick, thus the shock when we passed, as evidenced by the chorus of boos that Cameron got announcing the pick. I personally think that Quinn at 9 was a good value pick regardless of where he ended up getting drafted. He was not the first guy that should have been top 10 to fall and not really deserve it. Steven Jackson, Deauce Macallister, Matt Leinhart, Randy Moss, Terrel Suggs
and Drew Brees fell well beyond where they should have gone but people wanted to act like our passing of Quinn was justified because other teams passed. I dont agree with everything that Kiper says but he is a very knowlegable guy that too many on this board try to dismiss as just a chump.
He is not where he is because he doesn't know anything and Im sure You, me or anyone else on this board would not mind being in his position.
Even though in the past we have had disagreements and I sometimes think you are too sensitive(not thick skinned enough is maybe a better word) I always look forward to your posts because I do think that you make a great effort to be as knowledgable as possible on what you post. i truly prefer your takes on what these guys will do as opposed to who will take them. I hope you dont take this an attack because I truly do that mean this as such. I look forward to alot of opinions on this board, I just think more people should be open to other's opinions and not so quick to attack. I have been attacked as being too negative although if anybody can recall most of my takes have been quite accurate. I look forward to your takes on the prospects this year as any other year as well as opinions of other's on this board with maybe a few exceptions lol.

 

[Brad528]

LT is the second most important position when building a team that is why they are the second highest paid position. Jake Long is a Pace type prospect if you actually watched him. Dont believe everything you hear you have to see for yourself cause alot of these so called scouts and media members dont even watch the games nor the tape. Sure if you have some friends who work for NFL teams then maybe they know but not most. He would have been the first linemen taking last year if he came out and look where Thomas went as well as Brown from Penn State. Both players lost to him as Linemen of the Year last season. This season he only gave up one sack and had no penalties

 

[Boomer]

LT is the second most important position when building a team that is why they are the second highest paid position. Jake Long is a Pace type prospect if you actually watched him. Dont believe everything you hear you have to see for yourself cause alot of these so called scouts and media members dont even watch the games nor the tape. Sure if you have some friends who work for NFL teams then maybe they know but not most. He would have been the first linemen taking last year if he came out and look where Thomas went as well as Brown from Penn State. Both players lost to him as Linemen of the Year last season. This season he only gave up one sack and had no penalties

Jake Long is NOT a Pace type prospect and it's ludicrous to assume otherwise.

Oh and I watch the tapes.

 

[Fresh]

Todd McShay referred to him as a "left tackle" on Sports Center just a minute ago too.