The most important aspect of a franchise IS SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT, ABOVE ALL!! Coaches DO NOT bring playoff success!! | Page 4 | FinHeaven - Miami Dolphins Forums

The most important aspect of a franchise IS SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT, ABOVE ALL!! Coaches DO NOT bring playoff success!!

Next head coach cannot think he knows more than the GM, stfu about personnel and coach the players on your roster.

Flores downfall I believe.

In fairness to him higher ups should not be telling his who to fire and hire on his staff.
 
superphin said:
Mandich had 1 catch for 3 yards in 1970 but I'm sure his presence is what made the difference.

If you think Rich Kotite would have won 11 games with the Pats in 2001 and held the greatest offense ever to 17 points than I'm happy for you.

If you think George Wilson was going to win 10 games with the additions of Jake Scott and Paul Warfield then cool man. If you think George Wilson was on his way to winning 347 games, and 2 SB wins then more power to you.
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Hahaha you keep moving the goalposts.

First you pretended like the roster was the same from 69 to 70.

Then I pointed out a big change at WR, and you downplayed him, and pretended Warfield was the only change.

Then I had to point out 2 more changes, and you dismiss those too and pretend that's it.

Do I have to keep going to point out all the differences from 69 to 70. From what I see, I won't bother


My point remains. Coaches don't bring playoff success. Players do. Flores was fine. Won the same amount of games as future HOF SB winning coach Mike Tomlin.
 
andyahs said:
His argument is coaching does not matter so according to his flawed logic it doesn't matter the coach or his staff.
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The funny thing is that Jimmy Johnson said something similar without being as extreme. JJ said that the most important part of the organization is the talent evaluator. Basically, choose the first option if forced to choose between the following two options:
  1. Great scouting and talent acquisition and a mediocre head coach
  2. Mediocre scouting and talent acquisition and great head coach.
Any statement that coaching does not matter is ludicrous.
 
Sorry OP but no.

Coaches can't turn chicken **** into chicken salad, but they are certainly a major factor in DEVELOPING that talent and when teams are closely matched in the playoffs a gameplan can make or break the result.

You saw first hand what a bad ganeplan does vs the Titans.
 
Lionstone said:
The funny thing is that Jimmy Johnson said something similar without being as extreme. JJ said that the most important part of the organization is the talent evaluator. Basically, choose the first option if forced to choose between the following two options:
  1. Great scouting and talent acquisition and a mediocre head coach
  2. Mediocre scouting and talent acquisition and great head coach.
Any statement that coaching does not matter is ludicrous.
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Its sad that the thread has turned into tunnel vision... its not black and white.

Its not that the coach does not matter at all. The point in the OP still stands. People are being tunnel visioned.
 
andyahs said:
Flores coached the team to 1-7 then he coached that same team to 8-1 with the same core players.

Which Flo would be be getting next year?
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Waddle breaking the NFL's rookie reception record??
 
FanSince93 said:
What did Shula do in the playoffs from 1975 to 1995?

From 1975 to 1995, in that 20 year span, Don Shula missed the playoffs ten (10) times. He was 50/50 on reaching the playoffs or not. And that was with a HOF QB from 1983-1995.

But he won 2 super bowls in the 1970s, right? Yeah, because our roster had the talent required to do that.


Why didn't the Dolphins win any SB's after those 70s teams? Because our roster was not good enough. After drafting Dan Marino, we had the worst draft stretch from 1985-1992 in the NFL.
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Yes, because the pre-salary cap era is a good analog to the current day after all lol
 
FanSince93 said:
Yes, coaches have something to contribute and manage, but they are NOT the reason a team wins or loses. It's the players on the roster. Period. And who decides the fates of a franchise? The scouts/draft/talent evaluators. They are the ones that fill the roster with pro bowlers that carry you to a SB. Coaches do NOT bring playoff success.

Seahawks/Pete Carroll - won a SB in 2014. What has he done since then? If he's such a great coach, why did the Seahawks only win 7 games this year? Why did he get elimianted in the 1st round of the playoffs last year? Why isn't he achieving more success? COACHES DONT BRING PLAYOFF SUCCESS. PLAYERS DO!!

Steelers/Mike Tomlin - He got the 1 super bowl in 2009. That's 13 years ago. Hasn't won anything since. This season, MIKE TOMLIN won THE SAME AMOUNT OF GAMES AS BRIAN FLORES... 9 games this year. NO DIFFERENCE IN THE AMOUNT OF GAMES WON, BETWEEN A SUPER BOWL "HOF" COACH IN MIKE TOMLIN, AND A BRIAN FLORES.

Buccaneers/Bruce Arians - He finally wins a Super bowl. Why? Because the Buccaneers hit on their draft picks and talent evaluations. They drafted Chris Godwin. They drafted Mike Evans. Drafted Devin White. Drafted Winfield Jr. And on and on. They picked up an unwanted Shaq Barrett as an incredible FA signing. The team was loaded with talent, that it was attractive enough to lure the missing piece - a QB. Suddenly they are SB Champs. What was the main cause? Not Tom Brady. But the Buccaneers DRAFT/SCOUTS!

Patriots/Bellichick - Brady leaves NE, Pats are stuck with Newton, and Bellichick misses the playoffs. Then he drafts a competent rookie QB and is now back in the playoffs as a Wild card, but will likely be eliminated quickly.


THE COACHES DO NOT WIN GAMES. ONLY PLAYERS DO. THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF A FRANCHISE IS THE SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT. PERIOD. It is they who hit on draft picks, it is the talent evaluators who find pro bowlers in the free agent scrap heap, who make your team good, who hit on a QB, hit on a CB, hit on DE's, who pick Justin Herbet over Tua..... etc... and suddenly almost any random coach starts winning with great players.

The problem with the Miami Dolphins was NOT Brian Flores. He actually is a very good defensive mind, and we put up a winning season. He was actually AGAINST picking Tua!

We just need MORE talent on the field.

COACHES DO NOT MAGICALLY BRING PLAYOFF SUCCESS. NO COACHING CHANGE WILL FIX ANYTHING. Brian Flores was fine.

What we need is a COMPLETE BOWEL MOVEMENT OF THE SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT. I don't care how long they been there. Bring in young, 30 yr old ex college players or something.
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Well, you are certainly passionate but I get what you're saying. The single most important day of the year in the NFL is draft day. So much of how a team is built is based on hitting in the draft. We had three first-round picks in 2020. Tua, Austin Jackson, and Igbo. Franchise set back another set of years because of having missed. Scouting is everything. Also, who you're drafting is super important. What's their character? Did they graduate college? Are they mature enough to handle success? Lastly, where you draft guys. Drafting AJ in the late teens and igbo in the first are HUGE misses. This happens all the time...the Raiders! I don't think the coaching was totally to blame. Lack of talent on offense is another issue as well.
 
So coaches do not bring playoff success?
So maybe they should just let all those dudes go play playground ball with no structure or plan. You can have all the talent in the world but if you don’t have those 2 things I mention then they’re basically playing playground ball.
**** let’s just get rid of all the coaches and see what happens that’d be fun.
 
FanSince93 said:
Yes, coaches have something to contribute and manage, but they are NOT the reason a team wins or loses. It's the players on the roster. Period. And who decides the fates of a franchise? The scouts/draft/talent evaluators. They are the ones that fill the roster with pro bowlers that carry you to a SB. Coaches do NOT bring playoff success.

Seahawks/Pete Carroll - won a SB in 2014. What has he done since then? If he's such a great coach, why did the Seahawks only win 7 games this year? Why did he get elimianted in the 1st round of the playoffs last year? Why isn't he achieving more success? COACHES DONT BRING PLAYOFF SUCCESS. PLAYERS DO!!

Steelers/Mike Tomlin - He got the 1 super bowl in 2009. That's 13 years ago. Hasn't won anything since. This season, MIKE TOMLIN won THE SAME AMOUNT OF GAMES AS BRIAN FLORES... 9 games this year. NO DIFFERENCE IN THE AMOUNT OF GAMES WON, BETWEEN A SUPER BOWL "HOF" COACH IN MIKE TOMLIN, AND A BRIAN FLORES.

Buccaneers/Bruce Arians - He finally wins a Super bowl. Why? Because the Buccaneers hit on their draft picks and talent evaluations. They drafted Chris Godwin. They drafted Mike Evans. Drafted Devin White. Drafted Winfield Jr. And on and on. They picked up an unwanted Shaq Barrett as an incredible FA signing. The team was loaded with talent, that it was attractive enough to lure the missing piece - a QB. Suddenly they are SB Champs. What was the main cause? Not Tom Brady. But the Buccaneers DRAFT/SCOUTS!

Patriots/Bellichick - Brady leaves NE, Pats are stuck with Newton, and Bellichick misses the playoffs. Then he drafts a competent rookie QB and is now back in the playoffs as a Wild card, but will likely be eliminated quickly.


THE COACHES DO NOT WIN GAMES. ONLY PLAYERS DO. THE MOST IMPORTANT ASPECT OF A FRANCHISE IS THE SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT. PERIOD. It is they who hit on draft picks, it is the talent evaluators who find pro bowlers in the free agent scrap heap, who make your team good, who hit on a QB, hit on a CB, hit on DE's, who pick Justin Herbet over Tua..... etc... and suddenly almost any random coach starts winning with great players.

The problem with the Miami Dolphins was NOT Brian Flores. He actually is a very good defensive mind, and we put up a winning season. He was actually AGAINST picking Tua!

We just need MORE talent on the field.

COACHES DO NOT MAGICALLY BRING PLAYOFF SUCCESS. NO COACHING CHANGE WILL FIX ANYTHING. Brian Flores was fine.

What we need is a COMPLETE BOWEL MOVEMENT OF THE SCOUTING/DRAFT DEPARTMENT. I don't care how long they been there. Bring in young, 30 yr old ex college players or something.
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I do agree with this, coaching does matter but we've time and time again if a team is talented especially at the QB position then those coaches generally have more success. Example of the Broncos prior to Peyton Manning and after signing Peyton Manning. Bucs prior to signing Brady and after signing Brady. What makes head coaching jobs more desirable? having a good QB and talented roster right? So Yes talented roster does make coaching easier, its how Adam Gase got the opportunity to be a head coach in the NFL.
 
andyahs said:
His argument is coaching does not matter so according to his flawed logic it doesn't matter the coach or his staff.
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I think in a very roundabout way, he's saying you have to draft well. I think he lost his train of thought somewhere when he said coaching doesn't matter. It matters very much but talent wins games.
 
Soxfinatic said:
I think in a very roundabout way, he's saying you have to draft well. I think he lost his train of thought somewhere when he said coaching doesn't matter. It matters very much but talent wins games.
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Sure they go hand in hand. Don't disagree but please don't dismiss coaching.
 
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